Trump’s Canada obsession

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow 1930 or 1830?

@Convivial 1938 or 1939.

Americans often like to pretend their hostility towards their neighbours is ancient history. Unfortunately their own government policies contradict that.

@Convivial It was called War Plan Red and was declassified in 1974.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow thanks for the further information

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Got to remrmber / realise that, especially back then, military planners are there to plan, and they look at various scenarios, regardless of the provability of the scenario actually happening. I am aware that back then the UK had plans for war with the USA. However, such plans do not mean that the country was looking to go to war with that other country.

@22Michelle In fact the fact the UK had battle plans of their own shows how both sides saw a fight as a real possibility.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow No, it just shows that planners left to their own devices plan for any scenario they can dream up.

@22Michelle Sorry but that is just dishonest. This is not some random rogue bureaucrats. Claiming otherwise is just dishonest.

And again, nobody is giving a job to just dream up random war plans. That is not a thing.

As I said. There is a reason why you only see those war plans that align with foreign policy. If what you said was true you would see war plans for random countries which we know don't exist.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Have a look at US and UK plans for war in the 1920's and 1930's. Most were made at a time shen neither had, or were politically willing to, provide the resources required for these "wars". The USA had a small military capability, but their plans assumed it would be rapidly, and massively expanded. The UK was bringing in the Winston Churchill 10 year plan, which assumed no war was foreseen in the next 10 yesrs. It was then largely responsible for the poor state of its military power in the 1930's, and pushed it into the polucy of appeasement. Many of these plans assumed allies would be forthcoming. The UK had, until 1964 a War Office, which then became the Ministry of Defence.
Different times, and importantly times when milutary planners had much greater freedom and latitude to dream up scenariis and threats. Yet they were divorced from political realities.

@22Michelle We know from supporting documentation from the period that both countries considered it a real possibility that they could come to blows.

And you should know decisions of who you prepare for war with outside of a military junta is not decided by the military or even often by someone who knows anything about the military.

Capability almost never has anything to do with it.

Canada planned and war gamed a direct military conflict with the Red Army for almost 100 years. The 1940s was the only period in our history where that was not a totally laughable idea.

We had battle plans for a direct war with the USSR in the 1980s when the Soviet airborne contingent the VDV outnumbered the entire Canadian Army.

Do you seriously think anyone on the Argentine Army seriously thought they could defeat the British Army? Do you seriously think Saddam's officers thought they would defeat the US military in 1991?

Of course not. But the officers don't decide the wars.

This has nothing to do with military planners going rogue.

And as for the war office being renamed the MOD that was just politics. Being honest about what your "Ministry of Defense" was really for was no longer politically correct.

It is the same reason European and American colonies became "overseas territories."

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Well, I almost wish I had your self confidence and certsinty. Some of the plans, the scenarios had very real possibilities, even probabilities of coming to a fruition. Others were always just someone's bright idea, based on nothing more on sharing a border, or "how would we fight a war so far away.
And as for the examples you give it's worth remembering that the actual Argentinebplan was pretty sound, and based on not having to fight the British army. The invasion should have happened later and ensured Brirain coild not have mounted the naval force they did, as the South Atlantic winter would have arrived. The plan being to force a diplomatic agreement with the likes of the USA not wanting a long drawn out war and pushing the UK to settle. Instead the Argentines jumped the gun landing on South Georgia and then having to bring the planned invasion of the Falklands forward. All of which demonstrates wars hardly ever go as planned.