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[Politics] How Trump is changing the constitution without going through the constitutional process?

This is being done through the interpretation of the words in the Constitution rather than changing the words in Constitution.

Now I must say this likely will be challenged in the supreme court, yet is there any doubt how this REPUBLICAN supreme Court will rule?

Trump just signed this CONSTITUTIONAL interpretation through executive order. Basically dictatorially.

It has no governor approval much less ¾ of the governors. It has no Congressional approval, much ⅔rds of Congress which is required by the Constitution.

I will only give the first few paragraphs of this interpretational law. The link is given to the online document.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/protecting-the-meaning-and-value-of-american-citizenship/
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered:

Section 1. Purpose. The privilege of United States citizenship is a priceless and profound gift. The Fourteenth Amendment states: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” That provision rightly repudiated the Supreme Court of the United States’s shameful decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. (19 How.) 393 (1857), which misinterpreted the Constitution as permanently excluding people of African descent from eligibility for United States citizenship solely based on their race.

But the Fourteenth Amendment has never been interpreted to extend citizenship universally to everyone born within the United States. The Fourteenth Amendment has always excluded from birthright citizenship persons who were born in the United States but not “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” Consistent with this understanding, the Congress has further specified through legislation that “a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” is a national and citizen of the United States at birth, 8 U.S.C. 1401, generally mirroring the Fourteenth Amendment’s text.

Now how soon will this supreme Court will delay on even hearing the objections? It's the law of the land until they do!







As usual with political posts this informational. I will delete comments that I believe are negative.
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trollslayer · 46-50, M
With every law or amendment there are notes, opinions, and commentary from the lawmakers who wrote it. This one is no different and they were quite clear with their intent (the same argument the 2A defenders use).

So if you claim that had there been such thing as an “illegal” immigrant in 1870, they would have worded it different? Fair argument. But then it is also fair to claim that had machine guns and automatic guns been around in 1800, the 2nd amendment writers would have worded things differently.

If you want to end birthright citizenship, amend the constitution and protect the rights of those of us (most of us) who are citizens because we were born here.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@trollslayer problem here is this is a executive order. At no time in history was the constitution's amendments ment to be superceded by the president.

Congress yes. The supreme court yes. Through constitutional amendments by the way of Congress, the States governors and the president yes. Through a constitutional convention yes. Yet never solely by the president.

They were attempting to avoid a monarchy or dictator.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
Serious question.... can someone explain this to me:

The Fourteenth Amendment has always excluded from birthright citizenship persons who were born in the United States but not “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.”

If you are on the territory of a sovereign nation, aren't you automatically subjected to it's laws (aka fall under there jurisdiction)?

I can think of people that have diplomatic immunity... but since we are targetting migrants, I don't think they fall under that category. If they aren't under the jurisdiction of the country that they are in, how do they break the law?

... maybe my interpretation is wrong here. So yeah. Help?
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@sarabee1995 The case we are discussing is literally put in the constitution. It's really simple, you get born on US soil which automatically means you fall under the US jurisprudence (UNLESS, you have some kind of immunity, like mentioned earlier, but this never applies to normal migrants - legal or illegale). Therefore, they are citiizens in the US.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

It's as literal as it gets in the constitution. Not to mention that it got challenged/tested several times by similair figures, and all of these claims got thrown out by the supreme court. But because the white house is now the home of a bunch of authoritarian xenophobes, language needs to be questioned and loopholes need to be exploited. And if there isn't a loophole they'll create one out of thin air. Do you know why Sara? because these people don't give an F about your constitution. They didn't do it during their last term, they didn't do it during their speeches, and they are not doing it now. And people that go: "yeah, maybe there are 2 sides to this", enable these kinds of figures to just push harder.
ninalanyon · 61-69, T
@Kwek00 Totally off topic, but I couldn't resist. When I tried to pronounce
vogelvrij
It sounded very much like
fugl fri
which transliterated from Norwegian to English would be
bird free
or more idiomatically
free as a bird
Is that at all like what it says or means?
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@ninalanyon
Vogel = vögel = fugl
Vrij = frei = fri

... so yes.
trollslayer · 46-50, M
I have made this argument to the MAGA folks and the tea baggers that came before them for over 15 years. It flies right over their heads.

Lets hope it does not fly over the heads of the scotus.

One is always under the jurisdiction of some country’s laws (or more than one). If you are not under the jurisdiction of their laws, they cannot legally charge you with breaking a law, because the law does not apply to you.

If you want to end birthright citizenship, fine. But amend the constitution rather than this bullshit.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, FVIP
"... yet is there any doubt how this REPUBLICAN supreme Court will rule?"
Well since they've already ruled against him, I'd say it is uncertain how they will rule on any case until they hear the case.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@sarabee1995 I can care what you call the concept. It's still a concept. Concepts can not have rights.

Just because it legal doesn't make it real. God is a biblical concept the same way. And been around for thousands of years.

Does that make him real?
sarabee1995 · 26-30, FVIP
@DeWayfarer I don't know why you keep bringing God into the conversation. The fact remains that States are legal entities with powers, responsibilities and (yes) rights ... no different from any Nation, Kingdom, or other legal entity.

If, as you say, States have no rights, then how can they tell me where I can and cannot fish? How fast I can drive? How much to pay in taxes? These things all derive from their right to regulate commerce, establish laws, and raise revenue.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@sarabee1995 because it's a concept no less than your legal entity.

It's not real.

Does your state move? Does your state think? Does your state need food for itself? Does your state breathe? Does your state die? Can your state even be put in jail?

It's a concept.

Concepts can not have rights!

You can say all of that for geese though.
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@anythingoes477 Sorry for missing this comment.

Now that this matter is through the supreme court do you still say it's not happening?

The president has refused to follow the supreme Courts order and is still throwing out immigrants and born here child citizens of legal immigrants.
@DeWayfarer I never said it wasn't happening. I said stop him one place...it's like Whack A Mole....he'll simply violate the Constitution in another way.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@anythingoes477
That made the hillbillies jack each other off because it was 100% racist. But it never went anywhere. And this won't either.
Punches · 46-50, F
That constitution is meaningless these days.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@Punches sadly I agree.
the guy seems to have lost his mind
Musicman · 61-69, M
He can't. It's not possible. If he tried the Democrats would sue him and challenge it in court. They absolutely hate him and the freedom he stands for.
Musicman · 61-69, M
@Kwek00 I feel so bad for you. I am the one being trolled and yet you are blaming me. You are a true piece of work. 🤦‍♂
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@Musicman that's Trump's own site!
Musicman · 61-69, M
@DeWayfarer Whatever 🤦‍♂

 
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