CALEXIT: Should California follow Taiwan's struggle for independence?

@soar2newhighs You've got to be kidding. Nancy Pelosi was very open about US intention in this regard when she visited Taiwan on August 2, 2022. Below is her re-affirmation of the intent of her visit a year later on August 2, 2023.

"Solidarity with the people of Taiwan is as important as ever, as our world faces a stark choice between democracy and autocracy. Beijing's continued aggression against Taiwan is cowardly and cannot be met with silence. Make no mistake: America's commitment to freedom and human rights – in Taiwan and around the world – remains formidable."

@sree251 But you don’t understand that her words were hers, not the White House or supported by the White House.
She is the Speaker of the House, nothing more. Her words and action of going to Taiwan were irresponsible and dangerous.
As a sidebar: I served in Taiwan. Things are not what they were in ‘79, our last year there militarily.

@soar2newhighs
Why were you even there militarily? Taiwan has always been a province of China until Japan invaded and took over Taiwan. After WW2, Japan had to surrender and give up Taiwan. At that time, China was wrapping up her internal conflict. On account of the rise of communism and outbreak of the Korean War, President Truman inserted the US in between Mao Tze Tung and Chiang Kai Shek who had fled to Taiwan. The US wedge between China and Taiwan still exists despite Nixon's declaration of the "One China Policy" in 1979.

@sree251 The U.S. had a military presence in Taiwan from 1954 to 1979.

Are you sure it has always been a province of China? I knew indigenous people in Taiwan. Their heritage is South Pacific not Chinese

You know where the name Formosa came from and what it means?

Do you know who koxinga was?

Ever heard of Zeelandia?

You know who was the head of Taiwan in 74?

Yes Truman threatened mainland China over its harassment of Matsu and Quemoy.

Chiang fled in 49. One must ask why Mao’s forces didn’t follow Chiang and his forces to Taiwan and continue the
fight.?
There are many Taiwanese who say they were not followers of Chiang. He was brutal to the Taiwanese. (The 228 massacre)

Our presence militarily wasn’t until 1954. We finally left in ‘79

I’ve been out of there for a little over 50 years.
Great memories.

@soar2newhighs
And are you sure America aka USA has always been a nation? It was formed in 1776 by migrant insurrectionists who wrested the territory from the British Crown that took the land from the native Indians. Come on, my friend. Let's discuss sensibly within the context of geopolitical history.

@soar2newhighs
Why do you think Mao didn't go over to Taiwan and wring Chiang Kai Shek's neck? Do you think Mao was a weakling and didn't have the stamina to finish the fight as US military strategists at the Pentagon believe today that Mao's current incarnation, Xi Jinping, is incapable of facing down and drive our navy out of the South China Sea? Back then, Mao fought us in Korea to a standstill. MacArthur contemplated using the atom bomb and was fired by Truman.

Back then, Mao was a revolutionary who, like Cuba's Castro, came out of nowhere . He didn't have the institutional authority of the Emperor of China until China's civil war was concluded. Neither had Chiang Kai Shek who was a corrupt warlord, the kind of lowlife that the US is wont to put into position of power to front our hegemonic ways. And we would continue to back the Chinese in Taiwan today even though we have lost all credibility in the world as the defender of freedom and democracy. Our foreign policy is devoid of morality.



Chiang was a dictator and imposed martial law in Taiwan from 1949 to 1987 with the blessings of the USA. The Chinese on the mainland is indeed a patient lot. They have been taking our bullshit till this day. We just won't let them resolve the Taiwan matter their own way.

@sree251 Well if you know Taiwan has always been a part of China then I guess you are an expert on China and Taiwan.

@sree251 The US has a history of screwing thongs up. We did it with both Mao and Ho Chi Minh.
Our Gov’t under various administrations have done this all over the world. We’ve done it for years. Korea also where I served.
What is the way for the Chinese to solve the Taiwan matter their own way?

@soar2newhighs
You sound like a reasonable guy. So was my grandfather, a colonel in the US Army, who served in WW2 (Pacific theatre), Korea, and Vietnam. He was commandant of a POW camp in Japan after the war. He must have been viewed as a good American by his prisoners who came to visit him in America years later, bearing gifts. I inherited my grandfather's house where those gifts are still on display.

@sree251 Two tours in Korea one in Taiwan. Was going back- got cancelled.

@soar2newhighs
Just leave them be and let them sort it out by themselves. China will never attack Taiwan as we believe. Cross-straits commerce is high not to mention family ties that have existed since forever. Mainland Chinese are allowed to emigrate freely all over the world. China's problem over the Taiwan issue is not American presence but US Government geopolitical interference. There are some 6000 American business companies operating in China.

There will always be cultural difference between Chinese on the mainland and those in Taiwan. It's the same deal with Hong Kong. Chinese nationalism is pretty powerful stuff now that China is on the ascendency. Their pre-eminence is not like ours. Great as we are as an economic power today, China was the only superpower 600 years ago at the dawn of western civilization. China is a civilization empire-state with a governmental structure that has endured unchanged for 2000 years till today and still going strong. Her social system was not invented by founding fathers like ours was but has evolved organically. Do our think tanks expect China to junk it and adopt our rules-based order?

@soar2newhighs It's quite amazing that US occupation of foreign lands has not left a bad impression those foreigners have on our impact on their ways of life. South Koreans don't like North Koreans, and Taiwan Chinese would rather be free of Beijing's control.

@sree251 my belief is if the U.S. left South Korea the North would invade.
China is hesitant about attempting to invade and dominate Taiwan. And they have reasons for that.

@soar2newhighs
Are the South Koreans paying for US bases and troops? What is your view on the cost of defense? We are not there for the benefit of the South Koreans. Money is one thing. American lives are another. Our fear of the China threat is costing us big bucks.



Yes, lives lost is not going to be good. More importantly, conflict is bad for business for China who wants to extend her Road and Belt to connect other countries economically.

@sree251 Honestly I do not know how the maintenance of US military is paid for other than at least in part by taxpayer dollars. There are SOFAS that lay out many things in the U.S. military’s having forces in other nations.
If the Koreans are paying that might be but it may not be in a monetary sense.

Our presence in Korea , Japan , Okinawa and other areas where U.S. military assets are in the pacific arena keeps China on its toes. It’s a game of who blinks first.
But then too with a treaty with the P.I. IMO the Obama and Biden administrations failed to act when China seized P.I. Territory by force and are intimidating the P.I. with the near armed clashes between naval/ coast guard forces.

@soar2newhighs
Are our 800 military bases all over the planet meant for keeping every nation on their toes? This is a sad commentary on what America has become: some kind of lion tamer cracking his whip in a circus ring getting the big cats in their places. Isn't this a dangerous role we have picked for ourselves?

@sree251 Ever heard the expression “The world’s policeman”

@sree251 There is a video you might enjoy given our conversation. It is called “The coming war on China”. It covers some of the topics we’ve been touching on. It can be found on TUBI.

@soar2newhighs
Ok, I will watch it.