No way forward for America

@whowasthatmaskedman This is another instance where we see the difference between Liberals and Leftists. Liberals are coming up with a bunch of theories for why Trump won, some of them I do agree with, but Leftists know that the main reason is the failure of American Capitalism. Trumpism is the result of a system that isn't working, just like the return of Nazism in Europe.

@BohemianBabe

And of course, Boo-babe, Leftists are greatly RENOWNED throughout the world for the remarkable alternatives they have produced since the French Revolution and thereafter. 😂 😂 😂

@Thinkerbell Actually yes. The elements of Socialism that the Left has achieved are now so popular that the Right has to pretend to like them. Notice how when Republicans are talking to each other, they'll sometimes let it slip how much they hate unions. Trump did this when talking to Musk. But when Republicans are talking to the public, they pretend to support unions. Same goes for things like social security.
So yeah, the Left hasn't achieved Socialism yet. But the things we have achieved are beloved for how well they work.

@BohemianBabe


Let's take a look at "how well" Social Security works, shall we?

My parents, who are now retired, had 12% of their salaries paid into Social Security (6% directly plus 6% matching contribution from their employers). At the same time, they invested another 12% of their income in 401K retirement plans.

What are now the relative payouts during their retirement? The 401Ks are paying out THREE TIMES as much as Social Security for the same input. Socialism at work, Boo-babe. 🙄

P.S. Even the Scandinavian countries haven't abandoned capitalism. They understand full well where the money to finance their social programs comes from. 🤭

@Thinkerbell Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Like the ACA, social security isn't perfect, but it's much better than what we had before.
Keep in mind, the current system of social security isn't what Socialists wanted, it's what they were able to achieve within the capitalist system. Healthcare should be free, but within the framework of Capitalism, we were able to get things like medicare, medicaid, and the ACA.


True, but they've come the closest, which is why they have the highest living standards.

@BohemianBabe

They have the highest living standards because they have lots of North Sea OIL.
Norwegians were dirt poor 150 years ago. That's why so many emigrated to the US.
Haven't heard of very many of them going back. 🤭

Meanwhile, you're dodging the question of what other Leftists like Lenin, Stalin and Mao did. 🤭 🤭

Oh, wait, I forgot... they were fascists, right, Boo-babe? 🤭 🤭 🤭

@Thinkerbell
You can make that argument for Norway, but not the other Nordic countries or the German Sprachraum.
Also, there are plenty of countries that have more oil than Norway, such as America, Saudi Arabia, and Russia. So how come they're not doing as well as Norway.


I never dodged that question. My answer was always that what Stalin, Lenin, and Mao did was not Socialism, it was Authoritarianism with left-wing imagery.

Socialism requires that the workers own the means of production, and the most important mean of production is the government. If you're against democratic elections, then you're against Socialism.

Really, you should have to answer for the failures of Russia and China. You prefer Authoritarianism over Democracy. Why? Hasn't history shown that Liberalism, while not as good as Socialism, is at least better than Fascism?

@BohemianBabe


Could it be, perhaps, that Norway has only 5.5 million people, whereas
the other countries you mention have MUCH larger populations...? 🤔
And only one of those other countries has free, democratic elections, and the
difference in living standards between Norway and the US is negligible.


And countries with democratic elections are run by governments with career politicians who (nearly without exception) enrich themselves during their careers. Do you suppose the PMs of the Nordic countries live in two-room cottages? 😂
Not to mention the monarchs of those countries. 😂 😂


Nothing of the kind. Just because I criticize wokeism and other absurdities of the Left, doesn't mean I want an authoritarian government. In fact, it has been the Democrats lately that have been moving toward authoritarianism, particularly when it comes to suppressing differences of opinion to their party line. That's one of the factors that cost them the recent election.

@Thinkerbell
No, because while America does have more workers that use social programs, they also have more billionaires that they can tax. The population argument doesn't work.


Sure, but countries without a democracy have much more wealth inequality. My argument isn't that Democracy is perfect, my argument is that it's better than Authoritarianism.




Really? Can you give any examples of that? 🤨

This is peak anti-reality Fascism. You argued that democratic elections are bad because they're run by governments with career politicians, then you pretended to be pro-democracy while also pretending that being "anti-woke" isn't just Fascism.
This is like the Republicans who defend the Confederacy, then say the Democrats are pro-slavery because the Confederacy voted Democrat.

@BohemianBabe Capitalism monitored and kept in check is the most effective form of progressive economic management devised so far. Capitalism uncontrolled degenerates to some kind of oligarchy quite quickly. Money corrupts, buys power and that gives money control.. Welcome to America..😷

@whowasthatmaskedman

I'd never say all forms of Capitalism are the same. Of course Social Democracy is infinitely better than Laissez-faire Capitalism.
However, even with Social Democracy, the owner-class has way too much power and influence over the system, which is how we end up with Laissez-faire, and then full-on Fascism.

@BohemianBabe It is a fine balance I admit. And it varies depending on the resources the nation has. The constant is that whatever is spent of invested in the nation and its people MUST be repaid over time. For that reason, investments like infrastructure or education that increase the capacity of the nation to produce are considered wise..They pay for themselves over time..😷

@Thinkerbell
Thinkerbell, it is true that the Democrats lost the Election in part because of the candidate they chose, but after reading your tirade of grievances directed toward the 'left', you seem to be of the impression that the Republicans won the 2024 Presidential Election. 🤔