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After a decade of solar and wind turbine subsidies, blue state governors now complain that electricity rates are too high.



Photo above - Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, in his 2022 campaign, promised to close electric plants which relied on fossil fuels. On Friday he sent a threatening letter to the electric grid operators because rates have skyrocketed since.

Do you live in Pennsylvania? Or New Jersey? Are you getting torched by skyrocketing electric bills? Don’t bother complaining to your state government. They totally agree. Even if they deny that they’re the reason. Yesterday’s great ideas (renewable power generation) is now an existential threat to some politicians’ reelection.

This would be a serious problem, and we probably should take the governors’ angst seriously. Except there’s nothing those governors can actually do. The government is responsible for this fiasco, from start to finish. The governors of Pennsylvania and New Jersey are doing their best though. They’ve issued a joint communique to the electric companies. To ask the utilities “prevent customers from paying more than necessary.” Stop laughing. That’s what they did. See link at bottom.

It would be impractical (and expensive to) to halt offshore/onshore wind turbine farms still under construction. It would be political suicide to yank away the subsidies homeowners have enjoyed for installing their rooftop panels in the first place, and then selling the “excess” power back to the utility companies at sky high prices.

Please, before someone starts cursing me out, I definitely do NOT want to build new coal fired electric plants. I’m on the fence about tech companies buying up closed nuclear power plants and claiming they can rehab them and make them safe(ish). I’m not sure safe(ish) nuclear electricity is essential for building the next 5,000 Amazon and Google AI servers. All AI appears to do is write essays for school and office assignments and create deepfake “art”. If AI is so great, why can’t it do anything useful? Drive my car, file my taxes, and stop Russian election interference?

Governors Shapiro and Murphy (and the governors of California, Oregon, and every other state struggling with skyrocketing electric costs) I feel your pain. But instead of writing threatening letters, maybe politicians should put other ideas on the table too. Like suspending subsidies for electric sports cars that go zero to 60 in the blink of an eyeball. Like halting legislation that would force everyone to rip out perfectly good gas ovens and furnaces and replace them with electric appliances.

I’m just sayin’ . . .

Electric bills are rising in Pa. and N.J. Governors want the energy grid operator to help cut costs.
jehova · 31-35, M
Hemp oil is the only way to fix the fuel issue domestic production of light petroleum from he hydrocarbon thc into fuel. Domestic production to reduce import of foreign oil. The constitution and declaration of indepemdance were written on hemp paper. Leissez faire(enough said). The native species to north america was extremely productive 300 barrells an acre up to 1938 when the marihuana tax act was passed. Fix that and America is saved by agriculture.

Thc is ethanol soluble newspaper was used as the filter hemp bud was on top of. Then ethanol (alchol) poured over it on the newspaper extracting light petroleum into the container below. The container then left uncovered. The ethanol evaporates. What is remaining is heavy petroleum oil. Was it just gasoline prior to evaporation? Also the resultant bud is squeezed in the newspaper to produce motor oil.
Problem solved.
SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F
@jehova weren't we supposed to all be driving on used McDonalds french fry oil by now?
jehova · 31-35, M
@SusanInFlorida some are? Neceer went main stream
Tastyfrzz · 61-69, M
Solar and wind energy are great but...only when it's available. It's not that dependable. You need a lot of expensive batteries and excess capacity. 3X to 5X.

I looked at putting some in at the farm. Ran a few simple tests. Decided that it was not economical. The neighbor tried running his place on solar and a year later was trenching in a cable to the pole.
I think you'd be better off buying a used prius, park it near the house, and using it as a generator.
SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F
@Tastyfrzz the cheapest "stored electricity" turns out to be hydro. If we use excess solar/wind to fill resevoirs, then allow that to power the turbines at night, or during windless days, it's vastly cheaper than trying to put a lithium ion battery with 100KW of power in everyone's basement or utility closet.
Tastyfrzz · 61-69, M
@Tastyfrzz Power usage - non lights
HWH: 4000. 1.3. 5200. 5200. 9.1. 4
Stove: 5000. 1. 5000. 10200. 8.8. 5
Grow lights: 2000. 12. 24000. 34200. 42. 1
Dishwasher: 1800. .3. 5400 39600. 11. 3
Microwave: 1200. .1. 120. 39720. 0.21. 9
Refrigerator:780. 12. 9360. 48080. 16.4. 2
Furnace:600. 4. 2400. 54080. 4.3. 6
Washer: 500. .1. 50. 54130. .08
Mixer: 250. .1. 25. 54155. .04
Hood: 250. 1. 25. 54180. .04
TV: 300. 4. 1200. 55380. 2.1. 8
Computer: 200. 8. 1600. 56980. 2.8. 7

Total: 15,000 watts, 57 kwh,
$6.84/day or $205/ mon

15,000/450= 34 panels. (2 x 1.3 m ea.)
$1 / W with no backup.

AC. 4000. .8. 32000

Heat: 10 W / ft^2 - 17.6 W/ft^2
24* 50+ 8 x 12= 1200+96
~ 1300 ft^2

So it takes 13 kW to 22.1 kW in to heat the house up north. Assuming it runs 4 hours per day: 22.1*4=88.4 kW- hrs
1 therm = 29.307 kW hours.
Gas company says that a furnace uses about 1 therm per hour but is not 100% efficient so the 88.4 kW-hrs per day is probably still a good number.

88,400/450 = 197 solar panels for heat only.

Obtained from:
60 BTU/ ft^2. = 17.6 W/ ft^ 2

Need 230 panels.
Tastyfrzz · 61-69, M
@SusanInFlorida cryo ically cooled coils for super capacitors were thought to be the answer but the world helium supply got too low. With advances in super conductors and the discovery of helium up by Hibbing it may make a comeback.
Tastyfrzz · 61-69, M
To be off the grid economically means you need to be really frugal with electicity usage. LED light obviously but then you need to do a power inventory.
@Tastyfrzz There are a lot of passive solar design principles which should be incorporated, too, as well as rethinking the "oh you just face this door to the street"-style of not considering how the Sun affects a given house design.
Tastyfrzz · 61-69, M
@SomeMichGuy cooling is more of an energy hog than heating. Ask any bar owner. For my place in the cities after sweltering in my ranch the first yeat i planted seven maples in a cluster south of the house to simulate the shade of an elm Tree. Took thirty years but it works great. My neighbor loves it. I should have planted them a bit more sw of the house. They still help.
@Tastyfrzz It depends upon your cooling and heating loads.

And even that can be mitigated, as you pointed out in one example of many.

"Too much glass" hurts both loads.
HobNoblin · 36-40, M
It's almost as if solar and wind don't work!
SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F
@HobNoblin its almost as if handing out massive subsidies to build solar and wind results in higher energy costs
HobNoblin · 36-40, M
@SusanInFlorida Wow! Odd that!
dale74 · M
When I started reading this article I knew it was done by you
wildbill83 · 41-45, M
"if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging."
SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F
@wildbill83 if favored industries supply picks and shovels (or turbines and solar panels), and it's an election year, dig faster.
Crazywaterspring · 61-69, M
Their electricity is more than 21¢ a KwH?
You have your typical myopic take yet again...

 
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