If this pres. election only came down to economic policy differences, who‘s the candidate a neoliberal voter should vote for?

@BohemianBabe Neoconservatism is not really an economic policy doctrine at all. It‘s a foreign policy ideology if you will. Neoliberalism, however, is purely about the economy if you define it as the doctrine that seeks the partial revival of the classical liberalism from the 19th century. Another adequate definition would be general support for the recommendations of the Washington Consensus.

@CedricH This is one of those issues where I kinda agree, but it's more of like practice vs intent. Ideologically speaking Paleo-Conservatives are more willing to use social programs to maintain traditions and help rural workers, while Neo-Conservatives are extreme Capitalists. But in practice, Paleo-Conservatives hardly ever live up to their economic differences, rather they just take the extreme Capitalism position.

So, yeah, supposedly there is a difference, but your milage may vary.

I think it's the same with foreign policy too. Paleo-Conservatives claim to be against unnecessary wars and regime change, but they never live up to that either. I think the only people on the Right who do are the Libertarians.

@BohemianBabe Look, I don’t know how you define extreme capitalists but neoconservatives are different from paleoconservatives in that they support globalization, free trade, less government interference with the economy but accept more public debt in order to ensure high levels of defense spending.

The categories are somewhat outdated though and they‘re a bit cartoonish. They may have been more relevant in the 1980s and 90s. The actual dichotomy or dispute between paleoconservatives and neoconservatives was about foreign policy. Not economics. And neoconservatives (as opposed to paleoconservatives) don’t see themselves as either cultural warriors or proponents of a certain economic dogma. They‘re foreign policy activists through and through. Everything else is secondary. So you can be a neoconservative and support a larger government or a smaller government it wouldn’t disqualify you as a neoconservative.

That‘s why this question is about neoliberals. People who genuinely look for the party or candidate that embraces free market policies more or at least endangers it less with their policy ideas.

@CedricH
Extreme Capitalists as in they oppose absolutely any spending on social programs, whereas more moderate Capitalists will break for things like public roads. It's a spectrum, there's no clear division here, since there's really no country where literally everything is privatized.


True.


If we're going strictly by who would be better for the free market, probably Kamala Harris because Donald Trump's tariff plan is very much not free market.

@BohemianBabe
Okay, by that standard neither neoliberals nor neoconservatives qualify. What you‘re describing is a libertarian or anarcho-capitalist ideal.


That‘s the kind of argument I was looking for in this poll. Can you think of anything else besides trade policy?

@CedricH When it comes strictly to economics and nothing else, not really.

@BohemianBabe I‘d add her positions on immigration (which is an economic issue), the independence of monetary policy, some of Harris‘ tax reform proposals that would actually lower certain rates or create more tax incentives, her housing deregulation concepts and the fact that she‘ll probably be adding less to the structural deficit and public debt.

@CedricH The Republicans are probably going to do a lot of the deregulation too. And if Trump's last term is anything to go by, there's not actually going to do mass deportations. That's just red meat for the racists.

@BohemianBabe Oh I wouldn’t be so sure about the deportations it‘s a main pillar of his campaign.

@CedricH I know there are a lot of actual Nazis in the GOP, like JD Vance and Laura Loomer, but most of them are traditional Conservatives. They dog whistle to Nazis, but they actually like illegal immigration because it's cheap labor for their donors.

Now if the Nazi Wing of the party gets big enough that they can overrule the more traditional Fascists, mass deportations might happen. But we're a few decades off from that happening.

@BohemianBabe Wow, your political analysis is so fictitious and overdrawn. In any case, deportations are part of his core message. He will come down hard on this issue. You‘ll realize that if he wins.

@CedricH Which part is wrong?

Trump didn't build the wall, he deported less illegals per capita than both Biden and Obama, and he largely caused the migrant crisis with his sanctions on Venezuela.

Republicans only say the racist stuff to get the racist vote. But if you look at their actions, you see that they want third world immigration and they want to keep those migrants illegal so that they can be paid less than minimum wage. This is basic right-wing Capitalism.

@BohemianBabe You‘re a conspiracy theorist. Trump has initiated the construction of the wall, Congress got in the way. More importantly, he didn’t campaign on mass deportations in 2016. Now he does. He has further radicalized the fact that you can’t see that makes me question your political perceptiveness. But the way you throw around words like Nazi and Fascist disqualifies you from any serious debates.

@CedricH
Trump had two years where the Republicans totally controlled congress. He could have built the wall then, he chose not to. When he finally did build a tiny bit of walling, it was so cheap that it was easily destroyed.

This isn't a conspiracy, there's no secret cabal of Satanists here, this is just politicians lying to the public. Trump also said he was going to reveal his healthcare plan when he became president, but he never did. Was that a conspiracy? No, he was just lying to get elected.

Finally, Trump actually did say he would deport all illegal immigrants when he was running the first time.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34789502


Serious question, how do you define those terms? What would a person have to believe to be a Fascist or a Nazi by your definitions?