Why does Israel so adamantly oppose Palestinian statehood..,

@CountScrofula So the idea is that the "unstated" goal of the Israeli right was to find was to take more land through warfare and slowly settle it as to avoid strong condemnation. Slow enough that it keeps moderates and the ignorant in the dark. I can see that.

I wonder how the current state of things would be different if Israel had decided to not hold onto additional territory after 1967, instead taking the legal high road here. Prove that they are not aggressors by focusing defense on land they already have through agreement, rather than "defense through offense". Gaza then is Egypt's problem and west bank is Jordan's problem. Seems to me that it is much easier to keep neighboring established states in check rather than resistance fighters or terrorist groups.

@trollslayer Israel has been under fire from 1948 on. When Hezbollah or Hamas lobs "rockets" into Israel it doesn't make much news.

@samueltyler2 And Palestinian villages have been under fire from 1920 on. What is your point?

@trollslayer You should learn your history. My point is that the Arabs have attacked the Jews living in that area for thousands of years. How do you define the Palestinian villages that have been under fire from 1920? There has been warfare there since before the age of history. There has been Arab v Jew, and then a series of other "countries" trying to take over the lands.

@samueltyler2 maybe you should? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercommunal_conflict_in_Mandatory_Palestine

@trollslayer I just read this document, i don;t see the information you statye, there were a lot of battles, yes, but did you also see this:

"The Franco-Syrian War erupted in March 1920, as an attempt to establish an Arab Hashemite Kingdom in all of the Levant. In a number of notable incidents the war spilled into neighbouring Mandatory Palestine, including the Battle of Tel Hai in March 1920. Further, in April 1920, Amin al-Husseini and other Arab leaders initiated the 1920 Jerusalem riots where 10 people were killed and 250 others wounded. Several women were raped and two synagogues burned. Jews were particularly shocked by these events and viewed the events as a pogrom."

And this is interesting as well:

"Links with Nazi Germany
In 1933, within weeks of Hitler's rise to power in Germany, the German Consul-General in Palestine, Heinrich Wolff,[79][80] sent a telegram to Berlin reporting al-Husseini's belief that Palestinian Muslims were enthusiastic about the new regime and looked forward to the spread of Fascism throughout the region. Wolff met al-Husseini and many sheikhs again, a month later, at Nabi Musa. They expressed their approval of the anti-Jewish boycott in Germany and asked Wolff not to send any Jews to Palestine.[81]

The Mufti collaborated with the Germans in numerous sabotage and commando operations in Iraq, Transjordan, and Palestine, and repeatedly urged the Germans to bomb Tel Aviv[82] and Jerusalem 'in order to injure Palestinian Jewry and for propaganda purposes in the Arab world', as his Nazi interlocutors put it. The proposals were rejected as unfeasible.[citation needed] The Italian Fascists envisaged a project to establish him as head of an intelligence centre in North Africa, and he agreed to act as commander of both regular and irregular forces in a future unit flanking Axis troops to carry out sabotage operations behind enemy lines.[83] Operation ATLAS was one such joint operation."

More food for thought:

"Pro-Zionist parties
In 1920, the pro-Zionist Muslim National Associations was established by the mayor of Haifa, Hassan Bey Shukri and Sheikh Musa Hadeib, head of the farmers' party of Mt. Hebron.[88][89][90] In July 1921, Shukri sent a telegram to the British government, declaring support for the Balfour Declaration and Jewish immigration to British Mandate Palestine:

We strongly protest against the attitude of the said delegation concerning the Zionist question. We do not consider the Jewish people as an enemy whose wish is to crush us. On the contrary. We consider the Jews as a brotherly people sharing our joys and troubles and helping us in the construction of our common country.[88]

As'ad Shukeiri, a pro-Zionist Muslim scholar (‘alim) of the Acre area widely known for his opposition to the Palestinian Arab national movement, followed the same tendency. He met routinely with Zionist officials and had a part in pro-Zionist Arab organizations, publicly rejecting Haj Amin al-Husseini's use of Islam against Zionism.[91][92]"

@CountScrofula I am not a defender of Bibi, he is a bad actor. But, if you believe that Israel has a right to exist, then a solution must be found. As long as Hamas and Hezbollah are sworn to eliminate Israel, how can there ever be peace? Why do the Arab countries surrounding the area refuse to help the Gazans?

@samueltyler2 Of course I saw all that. My point is that the conflict did not begin in 1948 with Arabs attacking Israel, and that it is much, much more complicated than that. As for your next comment, I agree Israel has a right to exist and a solution must be found. I will also add that as long as Bibi and his right wing coalition control Israel, there can never be peace. As for your last comment, what are you claiming Arabs should do to help Gazans?

@trollslayer i never said the problem was simple, in fact i said there have been wars between the Jews and Arabs for thousands of years, and conquering countries have also been involved in attempting to eliminate all of the Jews, aka Israel.

for one, if you compare Ukraine to Gaza, the neighboring countries allowed Ukrainians a safety valve, helping to save lives. While Israel battled Hamas. Why do you think Egypt and the neighbors have refused? they could also have invested in Gaza and helped transform it into a productive area.

@samueltyler2 These are good faith questions so I'll answer in kind. Also since you're arguing a lot about who started it - creating the equivalent of Israel in any part of the world would provoke a violence response. It was an inevitable response to that kind of geopolitical move. A force of nature. If you set off an explosive on a mountainside, there will be a landslide. It was inevitable.


Well even if I didn't a solution must be found and I don't think "destroy Israel" is a solution.


Dare I say that Israel could just continue on without responding to these groups and cease their atrocities on Arabs. Yes, they will weather attacks from Hezbollah and Hamas, and they've done a pretty good job of doing that to date. They should weather more while extending an olive branch the whole while, and eventually Hamas will be deprived of oxygen. You can't just blow Hamas up and make it go away or it would have worked by now.

Hamas is to me a force of nature. You cannot treat any people group as the Israelis have treated the Palestinians without terrorism being the response. Occupation is violence, and violence will be the reward.

And clearly, clearly. Even if my pollyanna ideas were never accepted and some middle solution was instead the way, "Slaughter every living thing on the Gaza Strip" is the act of demons. No human being should countenance this.

@CountScrofula I wouldn't argue, except you insist on using the term Occupation, which shows your bias. Sorry, but The argument as to who was really there first, is only answerable by both were.