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Does anyone seriously believe that doubling taxes will fix the spending problem, or reduce the national debt?



[i]Photo above - The White House proposes resurrecting Carter era tax rates. Can stagflation be restored too?[/i]

Imaginary conversation:

Biden re-election team: “Mr President, we suggest that you announce you're going to double the capital gains tax. Fron 23% to 45%. And make it apply to dividends too. Voters will love you for it."

President Biden: “Fine by me. I don't believe in stocks or mutual funds. I've always said those are unsafe. People should buy US Treasury Bills instead.”

My wording might be imaginary, but a variation of that conversation CERTAINLY took place over the holiday weekend. And now all the democrats who understand money are freaking out. Because not only will this NOT fix our budget problems (people will just top selling stocks, like they've stopped selling homes), but because a huge tax hike might ruin their OWN re-election chances in this year.

If you live in New York, California, Miami (Mr. Bezos, I'm looking at you) or any place where people with real money can afford to live, you're probably already calling your congresspersons and senators. I don't have repeat THOSE imaginary conversations, do I?

Stupid proposals like this happen because the assumption behind policy changes is that “everybody will behave just like they did before.” So in 2022 the federal government collected $250 billion in capital gains taxes. Someone is assuming that if the tax rate doubles (at all tiers, not just the max), the new haul will be $500 billion. Stop laughing, that's really how the politicians who created our $34 trillion national debt think.

If you don't any stocks, don't have a 401K, or an individual retirement account, you might be marching around cheering. “Taxes double? So what! Good riddance. Screw dem greedy folks who've been saving10% of their paychecks every month. They never should've done that. This'll teach 'em. Now where's my guaranteed basic income, and student loan forgiveness?” These are votes Biden can surely count on, no?

Biden is facing a tough re-election. I get it. He's losing in the swing states to a man who's about to become a convicted felon. Foreign students are rampaging on US campuses because the prez isn't antisemitic enough to suit them. Biden can't cut spending, can't force Powell to reduce interest rates, can't close any of America's 800+ global military bases. The most powerful man on earth might actually be virtually powerless.

So he's doubling down, by doubling taxes.

I'm just sayin' . . .

~How Biden's Capital Gains Tax hike will crush the economy (msn.com)~
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RuthHolmes67 · 56-60, F
How about the top 5% payin the same percentage we are obliged to?
All of the corporations paying their due,
All of the trump types pating their due .
And why should churches get tax exemption?
Sounds like were no further on than in 1776.
SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F
@RuthHolmes67 I'm intrigued by the idea of a flat tax. Everybody pays the same percentage? 23% is commonly cited. the way you protect lower income workers is by exempting the first $80,000 or whatever. But above that level its 23 cents out of every dollar you get.

no deductions for mortgage interest, uninsured hurricane damage; tesla cars; state income taxes; property taxes; moving expenses; energy efficient water heaters; solar panels . . .
SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F
@NatureGuy77 business taxes are "regressive". if you're paying GM's corporate taxes when you buy a new vehicle, then it's hitting the lower income buyer harder.

same with gasoline tax, sales tax, etc.
NatureGuy77 · 56-60, M
@SusanInFlorida Yes but it would never pass. The optics of it. A national VAT tax would be efficient to capture those avoiding taxes and the underground economy and those illegals working for cash. That will never happen either. Exemptions for food, clothing, and necessities to protect lower income citizens.
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
Did he ever actually present the proposed capital gains tax rise as a way to reduce the national debt? My understanding is that it is prudent and proportionate measure to the spending commitments of his (comparatively) radical and interventionist economic policies. Yes, the proposal is not likely to be unpopular with the masses - taxing unearned the unearned income of capital owners is generally a more rational idea than taxing the earned income of those with few or no assets - but is it not just remotely possible that an experienced and principled politician might be acting out of something other than naked self interest?

Nobody believes that "everybody will behave as they did before". That is why we elect politicians, to weigh up difficult choices and make compromises. Tax increases may influence the economic behaviour of some capital owners and if the consequences are deemed to be negative overall they can be anended or reversed in the future. But one thing is for certain, they will not "crush" an economy as large and resilient as that of the USA. If we listened to this hyperbolic c**p every time anything faintly challenging to vested economic interests and the status quo is proposed, we would never get anywhere at all.

Just sayin' 😐
NatureGuy77 · 56-60, M
@SunshineGirl People can and will move their estate money before they pass to avoid those estate taxes.
SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F
@SunshineGirl "nobody believes everyone will behave as they did before".

you and I know this won't happen, but virtually every tax or spending proposal assumes behavior remains the same.

taxes inevitably take money out of consumer paychecks

spending inevitably causes people to flock to whatever is being subsidized: housing; Tesla cars; Amtrak; FDIC insured certificates of deposit at banks . . .
RedBaron · M
@NatureGuy77
Capital is Mobil

No, the oil company is MOBIL and capital is MOBILE, like the city in Alabama.
Joe didn’t concern himself recently in NYC with such matters when he went hat in hand to wealthy NY donors asking for money for his political aspirations. I wonder if he told them that they needed to “ pay their fair share” as he lined his pockets with their donations.
[image/video deleted]
@SusanInFlorida
…and I am willing to bet he did not chastise them by telling them to pay their fair share.
SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F
@soar2newhighs i am suprised that $26 million is considered "a record".

the 2020 presidential election had $14.4 BILLION in spending (both parties, combined).
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RedBaron · M
Increasing the capital gains tax rate is not “doubling taxes.”

But playing fast and loose with words is OK if it suits your angry narrative, isn’t it?
SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F
@RedBaron award for first person to reveal he didn't read the post.

congratulations. pour yourself a celebratory drink. or did you have a couple before you replied?
RedBaron · M
@SusanInFlorida I got the gist without reading the whole copy-paste job.

Taxation is my profession and I make a good living at it, so it’s highly doubtful that anything you post will show me anything new.

And why should I read it when you didn’t write it?
Baremine · 70-79, C
Very well said. Tax and spend democrats have got to go.
SusanInFlorida · 31-35, F
@Baremine tax and spend either party
Reason10 · 70-79, M
@SusanInFlorida @SusanInFlorida Even brilliant columnist Ben Shapiro recognizes that Republicans cannot be counted on to help control spending.
NatureGuy77 · 56-60, M
They’ll pass it and when it worsens the economy they’ll blame their opponents, republicans and greedy businesses.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Very imaginary
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Baremine *Citation Needed*
deadgerbil · 26-30, M
@Burnley123 this account always has drawn out imaginary ramblings lol
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whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
Raising taxes has a role to play. But its the ridiculous spending by the government that is the real issue.The whole system is a Tug of War. All the effort and nothing productive accomplished..😷
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@SusanInFlorida I agree that the student loan cancellations are a political stunt. Simply because of how it was handled..America couldnt even handle a simple Universal health scheme without building in multiple profit levels for the snouts in the trough. Why not milk the students who want to get ahead?? As for the rest. Well imagine an animal caught in a trap and having to eat itself to survive another day, because it cant escape.. Thats the US economy..😷
RuthHolmes67 · 56-60, F
@SusanInFlorida i agree , downsize the military,
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@RuthHolmes67 Downsizing the military is a great idea. Now what are you going to do with all those unemployed young people???😷

 
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