It's so funny that people call me fascist when they don't believe in freedom of speech themselves.

I will say "I don't want the state to recognize polly marriages" and i'm a fascist. Yet, if I ask these people "do you think all the nations that have the confederate flag and tha nazi swastika banned should keep it that way?" they will NOT say "no, as someone who believes in freedom of individuals do to whatever they will as long as it's consensual, I think you should be allowed to fly whatever the hell you want if it's your personal property".

At the end of the day, no one other than a handful of libertarians believe in individual rights. It's just something that sounds benevolent so we like to say it. You don't believe in an individuals right to have a confederate flag in their room? you don't beleive in freedom at all.

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ViciDraco · 41-45, M

I don't believe in banning the private display of the confederate or even the nazi flag. I do believe in preventing the use of public land to display such things except in the case of historical education purposes in appropriate places - so public museums are okay and being printed in history texts is okay.

As for private display, I do not think that should be forbidden by the state. However, everyone around the bearer of such symbology also has the right to not associate with that individual through private social and business exclusion.

I do believe that is the prevailing belief in the US. However, there are very vocal people that want private bans. Despite being a minority, they have more visibility because of how much noise they make over it. But that hardly creates a censorship crisis.

BRUUH · VIP

@ViciDraco When you talk about public displays, I imagine you have the confederate statues in mind? I'm from the south. Iny my opinion, whether those should stay up or not, should be the result of a direct democratic process by the people of the area where those statues are. The problem is that antifa fags brought them down by force, which is undemocratic.

I agree with everything else you said tho. If you were in Canada or Germany, would you vote for the right of people to fly such things? You personally?

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ViciDraco · 41-45, M

@BRUUH As far as confederate statues in public squares, that is kind of a strange situation. I mean, why do we have the statues of people who committed treason in the public square? A lot of push for the pro-confederate iconography happened decades after the war as a direct attempt to make specific populations uncomfortable. There are some situations where you have to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority - or in some cases, even just another minority and the apathy of the majority.

BRUUH · VIP

@ViciDraco It's so weird tho because I believe so differently from you and you stand for so many things I hate but you seem like such a good hearted guy.

ViciDraco · 41-45, M

@BRUUH I consider myself to be on the libertarian left. Not quite anarchist, but in that direction. I believe people should have a lot of autonomy and choice. I believe hierarchies should be minimal and simplified where they exist.

BRUUH · VIP

@ViciDraco But why do you seem like such a nice guy when you believe everything I don't?

I think hierarchies are not inherently good or bad... just depends what they are. I reject the doctrines of radical equality as they have arisen since the enlightenment era. I am much more of an elitist, in that I think we actually SHOULD be governed by elites, but that they should be competent and able to prove moral character. Both plato and Confuscious essentially thought that there should be an oligarchy, but that it shouldn't be plutocrats, but rather sages. I think using ancient language like they do makes my thesis sound mystical, but it literally is simply the believe that descisions on matters should be made by the people who are the most wise on those subjects, and the most incentivized to do what brings about the most good.

I do think some people really get a kick out of stepping on the weak and vulnerable, and I have nothing but contempt for those people. At the same time, "equality" is a romantic idea that just sounds good. I want leaders who are strong and kind, but we have no litmus test for this, just majority rule.

ViciDraco · 41-45, M

@BRUUH I probably come across as a nice guy because I try to argue ideas and not people. I want people to be free to pursue their happiness and not have other people tell them what will make them happy. Even if that freedom means they might make mistakes. As for our discussions, I understand some of the core goals of what you are trying to accomplish in the positions you take. I frequently find your methods of reaching such goals to be disagreeable. But I do not read malice into your arguments. So I have no reason to be cruel in the disagreement.