US refugee crisis: a moral litmus test of white American Christian response.

@ElwoodBlues [quote] You have that EXACTLY BACKWARDS!! [/quote]

US Government is the state dealing with the migrant problem, not the church. You guys have separated church from state which is now in the power of secular types that you support.

[quote] It's the Bible thumping party of "Christian values" that's fighting hardest to keep out refugees and asylum seekers. Also fighting the hardest to reduce or eliminate aid to poorer US citizens. I'm not saying the Democrats are perfect, but the dems are doing much more for domestic and foreign needy people, AKA "the least of these my brethren." [/quote]

Christian churches have always been responding to migrants that the state allows to stay in the country without providing them with shelter and food. Various church organizations help migrants out when they have no where to go while the state takes forever to process them. Thanks to guys like you who know how to talk a good game but can't deliver. You let the problem fester in the country.

@sree251 [quote] You guys have separated church from state[/quote] Sorry, the Founding Fathers separated church from state. I'm not one of them.

[quote]Christian churches have ... [/quote] I'm talking about political parties steering the power of government to provide aid for the poor and needy. The magnitude of government aid totally dwarfs church aid. The federal government is a collection of powerful tools; you can't hide from how people are using it.

To wit, as I said, it's the Bible thumping party of "Christian values" that's fighting hardest to keep out refugees and asylum seekers and fighting the hardest to reduce or eliminate aid to poorer US citizens. It's the Bible thumping party of "Christian values" that's deploying the powerful tools of AGAINST "the least of these my brethren."

@ElwoodBlues [quote] Sorry, the Founding Fathers separated church from state. I'm not one of them. [/quote]

You have been reading an American history book written for shaping your perception of the country.

Harvard University was founded by Christian missionaries for Christian education. What is your perception of this institution's history?

@ElwoodBlues [quote] I'm talking about political parties steering the power of government to provide aid for the poor and needy. The magnitude of government aid totally dwarfs church aid. The federal government is a collection of powerful tools; you can't hide from how people are using it. [/quote]

The poor and needy of the state is a political matter as defined by Joe Biden. The poor and needy of the church is the focus of Christian love as defined by Christ.

We live in different worlds, Elwood.

@ElwoodBlues [quote] To wit, as I said, it's the Bible thumping party of "Christian values" that's fighting hardest to keep out refugees and asylum seekers and fighting the hardest to reduce or eliminate aid to poorer US citizens. It's the Bible thumping party of "Christian values" that's deploying the powerful tools of AGAINST "the least of these my brethren." [/quote]

You are not a Christian, I am. Your are a statist not me. The US Government is running affairs of the state. The church is not dictating public policy, the state is. The mess in the country is created by the state. Humanism is your lore. You don't need God love. Let's see how you deal with the mess through the power of your empathy.

@sree251 [quote]Harvard University was founded ...[/quote] Nice attempt to change the subject, LOL!!! BTW, Harvard, thru its divinity school, still educates religious leaders. But that's off topic.

[quote]The poor and needy of the state is a political matter as defined by Joe Biden. The poor and needy of the church is the focus of Christian love as defined by Christ.

We live in different worlds, Elwood. [/quote]

Now we get to the meat of the matter.

[quote]35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.[/quote]

You are trying to greatly narrow down the target of charity down to fellow members of your church. The parable of the Good Samaritan shows how false that interpretation is. The parable of the Good Samaritan says ANY of your neighbors in need are "the least of these my breathren."

[quote]Your are a statist not me.[/quote] In this day and age the government does far more for "the least of these my breathren" than all the churches combined. The government is a powerful set of tools.

Meanwhile, it's the Bible thumping party of "Christian values" that's deploying the powerful tools of AGAINST "the least of these my brethren." They wrap themselves in the flag and they wave the Bible, and they talk the talk. But they don't act like Christians in the face of the poor and needy.

@ElwoodBlues [quote] You are trying to greatly narrow down the target of charity down to fellow members of your church. The parable of the Good Samaritan shows how false that interpretation is. The parable of the Good Samaritan says ANY of your neighbors in need are "the least of these my breathren." [/quote]

What made you read "Christian love as defined by Christ" to mean for Christians only?

Separation of church from state is a foolish approach to the governance of American society. If you want to live a secular life, the church cannot clean up the social problems you create.

@sree251 You separated "The poor and needy of the state" versus "The poor and needy of the church."

I made no such separation. I'm just talking about WHO is ACTUALLY helping the poor and needy, regardless of affiliation.

[quote]Separation of church from state is a foolish approach to the governance of American society.[/quote] You're welcome to your opinion, but that separation has been in the Constitution from the beginning.

@ElwoodBlues [quote] In this day and age the government does far more for "the least of these my breathren" than all the churches combined. The government is a powerful set of tools [/quote]

What powerful set of tools? Government programs that have degraded the black community? It's getting worse. Never before in my life in America have I seen so much poverty around me. I live in an upmarket affluent community. Black kids beating on white pails with sticks at traffic stops is no longer a phenomenon when I drive into the city. They have been displaced by migrant women with babies slung on their backs as they hawk candy and drinks. There are beggars appearing now even in my neighborhood.

@ElwoodBlues [quote] You separated "The poor and needy of the state" versus "The poor and needy of the church."

I made no such separation. I'm just talking about WHO is ACTUALLY helping the poor and needy, regardless of affiliation. [/quote]

I made that distinction to point out the ills of a secular state. Have you visited a Catholic orphanage and seen kids born out of wedlock, the ones that escaped abortion? They are offspring of godless people like you.

@sree251 Out of wedlock births are a symptom of POVERTY. And the party of "Christian values" is working hard to maintain an underclass and keep people in poverty.

@ElwoodBlues [quote] Out of wedlock births are a symptom of POVERTY. [/quote]

Brad Pitt had kids with Angelina Jolie out of wedlock. De Niro has a child with his girlfriend lately. So did his pal, Al Pacino. None of these godless guys are poor.

@sree251 Actually, all but one of Brangelina's six kids were ADOPTED. And they were adopted out of poor backgrounds. They saved five kids; you should be singing their praises!

BTW, I learned in school that the plural of 'anecdote' is NOT 'data,' so please let me know when you have actual data that says poverty doesn't cause out of wedlock births.

@ElwoodBlues [quote] Actually, all but one of Brangelina's six kids were ADOPTED. [/quote]

Check info below from Wikipedia.


[i]Angelina Jolie has had a total of six children, but not all of them were born through pregnancy. Jolie has three biological children with her former husband Brad Pitt: a daughter named Shiloh and twins named Knox and Vivienne. She gave birth to Shiloh in May 2006 and the twins in July 2008.[/i]

@ElwoodBlues [quote] They saved five kids; you should be singing their praises! [/quote]

If you believe that they did it primarily to save poor kids from poverty, then you have also been radicalized to believe that our foreign wars are for protecting humanity.

@sree251 I described the EFFECT. I'll leave it to you to explain how your interpretation of their "improper" motivation negates the effect.

@ElwoodBlues [quote] I described the EFFECT. [/quote]

The effect on your radicalized mind? Have you ever thought about why you think the way you do? If there is one other person whose thinking is like yours, then you both have been radicalized.

@sree251 No, the effect on the CHILDREN. Do I really need to explain the phrase "They saved five kids"??

By the way, the name calling is getting a little tiresome. Oh wait, you lack actual arguments so you lob insults instead. OK, now I get it.

@ElwoodBlues [quote] No, the effect on the CHILDREN. Do I really need to explain the phrase "They saved five kids"?? [/quote]

I don't know where you are going with this thread created for you. We are talking about selfishness of American Christians with regard to the migrants at the border. And I am saying that the US Government response is that of secularism, not Christian, because the church has been removed from the state by you guys. Why bring up Angelina Jolie and the effect of her actions on the kids she adopted?

@sree251 Where I am going is pointing out that the self identified party of "Christian values" leads the efforts to deny aid to the poor and needy.

@ElwoodBlues [quote] Where I am going is pointing out that the self identified party of "Christian values" leads the efforts to deny aid to the poor and needy. [/quote]

Is Joe Biden a self-identified person of Catholic values?

@ElwoodBlues What party is that? I don't vote. I have more interest in horse races.The Kentucky Derby is this weekend.

@sree251 Your religion is strictly between you and your god. Keep it there. Don't try forcing it on our nation.

@Paladin [quote] Your religion is strictly between you and your god. Keep it there. Don't try forcing it on our nation.[/quote]

If it is your nation, you would have no issue with laws consistent with your values. For example, Islam is not forced upon Saudis in Saudi Arabia. Buddhism is not forced upon Thais in Thailand. America is not your nation. Get out to where you belong.