Regarding the protests on U.S. colleges and universities nationwide, there are two things Pro-Palestinian activists can do

@BohemianBabe to be fair, there are some with those attitudes that show up, but they don’t define the movement, only the media thinks they do.

@trollslayer The media is just lying. They know the fringe doesn't define the movement. Liberal media knew that BLM wasn't defined by the fringe rioters. But now that it's about Israel, that same liberal media is pretending all of these protests are Hamas.

@BohemianBabe

Video evidence says otherwise. That’s why the media is talking about it because these hateful messages were said directly from some the mouths of some these protesters on video.

It’s why people like Khymani James was suspended from his campus due to his rant on why Zionists don’t deserve to live after it resurfaced.

@BohemianBabe

“Fringe cases”

It’s not rare to find others with the same mindset in any movement good or bad that includes those who support Hamas or ridicule Jews in the Pro-Palestinian movement. They might not always be caught on video chanting their support for Hamas or threatening Jews with violence or expressing their hatred for them but they still exist online and offline.

Just like this guy
https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/gjeVW1Ap8S

Or groups of these protesters

https://x.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1782154171250012237


So? Do you think people filled with hate are going to pick and choose which Jews are Zionists and which ones aren’t? Especially when a handful of pro-Palestinian protesters generalize that all Jews are from Europe? Or Place blame on them for what’s going on between Israel and Hamas? Even the ones who don’t support the Israeli government but believe israel should exist would be seen as a Zionist.

@Puppycat23
The first video, yeah, those people were legit Hamas supporters. But the second video, I didn't see anything about Hamas or Jews there.

And that's kinda my point here. If hatred or violence against Jews was super common at these protests, they'd be all over the media. But look how hard it is to find evidence of these claims.


Of course. The hatred is directed against Israel and how our taxes are funding their genocide. That could turn into hatred of all Jews or even hatred of all Americans, but that hasn't happened.

@BohemianBabe Remember that episode of Seinfeld where Uncle Leo thinks everyone is an antisemite?

My Jewish wife talks about being "triggered" by all this - and her family and friends use similar language. I am starting to understand what this means.

There are holocaust survivors still alive, and if you grew up Jewish in the 1940s-1970s, more than likely you had a holocaust survivor in your circle. You heard stores, warnings, and had fear of that happening again. And in many places, you saw evidence of contemporary antisemitism whether it be neo-nazi activities, vandalism, inappropriate jokes, insults, etc. Its natural self-preservation to take all of those as serious threats in the context of events that only happened a few decades prior. Israel is part of the strategy for not allowing another Holocaust, and therefore gets a "blank check" in their minds to do whatever it needs to do to protect Jewish lives. And thus, any criticism of Israel is met with serious suspicion - understandably so.

I'm not sure what the solution is here, but I think having people like Bernie Sanders explain the difference is a step foreword. Chuck Schumer, on the other hand, is reactionary. It is going to take some understanding from all sides here - for Jewish people to understand criticism of Israel does not equal support for terrorism, and for those protesting to understand how criticism of Israel could be misconstrued.

@BohemianBabe

In the second video people in the crowd were obviously targeting Jewish students who were on their way back to their dorm from campus, (I believe they were leaving from Shabbat dinner) i.e. yelling “Yehudim” or “Yehud” (which means Jews) telling them to stop killing children, telling them to go back to Poland or Belarus, etc.




There’s no “could” there’s already hatred against Jews. There has always been but now with some people using what’s going on in the middle east as their excuse. I’m certain there has been an uptick in hate crimes because of it. There doesn’t have to be something major such as a mass shooting targeted against a certain group of people to realize there is hatred against that group.

@Puppycat23
Serious question, do you also think the civil rights movement of the sixties was hatred against white people?
Also, even if it was, does that negate the fact that segregation should have ended?

A handful of anti-jewish incidents shouldn't define the entire movement, just like a handful of anti-white incidents didn't define the civil rights movement.
And even if this movement does become overwhelmingly racist, that doesn't change the fact that Israel should end their apartheid and genocide.

@trollslayer I don't know, I find it difficult to have sympathy for Jews saying they feel attacked because people are demanding an end to Israel's apartheid and genocide. I can understand Jews feeling uneasy with "from the river to the sea" because there are some Hamas supporters who use that phrase too. Even when people say Israel shouldn't exist without further elaboration, I can understand that coming across as anti-jewish.
But to say it's anti-jewish to oppose Israel's government on the basis of genocide, that really is just Uncle Leo saying Goebbels burnt his burger. We don't say it's anti-russian to oppose Russia's invasion of Ukraine. We don't say it's anti-black to oppose the Black Hebrews or the Nation of Islam.

@BohemianBabe


I am certain there was a level of hate and mistrust against white people from some Black people during the Civil rights movement.


It would have made the fight to end segregation harder. And taken away the reason people were fighting for equality. There was already negative reactions about the civil rights movement, and attacking white people would have confirmed the beliefs that segregation was necessary. That aside the reason the civil rights movement was successful is because of its non violence approach.



If it becomes overly racist then it becomes overly racist. And any movement that ends up like that tends to push people away.

@BohemianBabe I have sympathy, because many of these folks are just trying to go about their lives and some have had very hateful things thrown at them. Where I start to have problems is to then label the whole movement as some kind of antisemitic hate rally. Suppose a black person gets called hateful things on the way to his/her job by white people for no other reason than skin color. I have sympathy, but I would have a problem if that person then accused all white people as hateful racists.

I don't know how many Jewish students have been harassed, or how many were simply scared because people are standing up to Palestinians. If your mindset is "you can't support palestinians without supporting hamas, therefore you support terrorism and killing Jews, so that I am scared of you and the police need to remove you", then I think that person needs to find a good therapist.

But there have been legitimate cases of pure hate. Unfortunately, us bystanders relying on media have no idea how common they are. If ADL simply equates someone saying "from the river to the sea" as antisemitic - then it is pretty obvious that you arent going to get a realistic idea of how significant the problem is.

As for that phrase - I personally would not use it because at this point its purpose is to piss off the other side and may be doing your side more harm than good. But the Jewish people offended by such phrase would do well to learn that Palestinians also are offended by that phrase when spoken by Israelis - and it has, from Israel's inception to modern day. What does Israel mean when they use that phrase? Well, when Netanyahu holds up a map with no distinction between Israel and the West bank, that seems to imply that they believe all land from the river to the sea and from Egypt to Lebanon is a Jewish state. They just havent completed their goal yet. If they can't see how that would be offensive to Palestinians, then they really have little legitimate complaint about it being offensive to them.

@trollslayer
Sure, but we're talking about Jews who think the act of protesting Israel in itself is racist. Like I said, I have sympathy for Jews who feel uneasy when people use slogans that are also used by Hamas. And of course, I would oppose people protesting by using swastikas or some stupid shit like that. But I can't take people seriously when they equate opposition to Israel's genocide with racism against Jews.


So here's one way you can tell. If the media has a narrative that they are unable to back up with evidence, so they resort to blatant lies, you know their narrative is bullshit.

For example...

[media=https://youtu.be/3QArBAQokMc]

If attacks on Jews were common, there would be tons of video evidence by this point. But there isn't, so the media is resorting to this. It's like how right-wing media is trying to construct a narrative that trans people are more likely to be school-shooters. But because the evidence isn't there, they've had to take cases with a cis shooter and lie about them being trans.