To bring the idiots here up to speed on insurrection: The Trump rally on Jan 6 WHICH BY THE WAY WAS A CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED PUBLIC MEETING, had almost a half a million people there. If LEGALLY ELECTED PRESIDENT TRUMP had wanted an insurrection, he would have ordered that ENTIRE CROWD to do it. These things would have happened. 1. Capitol Hill would have been burned to the ground. 2. Pretty much most if not all of Congress would be either dead or in the hospital. 3. Pretty much most of the Supreme Court would be dead and their offices burnt down. 4. The Joint Chiefs of Staff would be dead, leaving the military with only the Commander In Chief to lead them. At that time, it was still LEGALLY ELECTED PRESIDENT TRUMP. 5.Trump would have made himself KING of America. He would have the nuclear launch codes. He would have control of the military. There would be no more elections.
NONE of that happened. So there was no insurrection. You might call that little romp in the Capitol an insurrection. That just means you're stupid and you don't know anything.
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Correct, some Capitol Police were Trump fluffers, and let the rioters in. Others resisted and some were injured. The reason no Congress members were killed or injured is because a few brave officers held the crowd off or misdirected it so the legislators could barricade themselves or get away.
The rally outside the Capitol was legal. Entering the Capitol with the intention of disrupting Congress was not. Yes, some people were idiots and just wandered in when they saw others entering.
I agree that it wasn't an insurrection. It was a riot. Trump's best argument against a 14th Amendment ban is that it wasn't an insurrection. None of the traitors who broke into the Capitol have been charged with insurrection. The closest are several who were charged with seditious conspiracy.
I disagree that Trump would have declared himself king of America. He might have tried, but his term would have ended at noon on January 20. Without a new President or Vice-President, Nancy Pelosi would have become President, and her first order of business would have been to get Congress together to certify Biden as the lawful President. There's no way the Beer Belly Putsch would have been able to kill everyone in Congress, the Supreme Court, and the military leadership. The violence wasn't planned except for a few groups like the Proud Boys, who had weapons stashed outside Washington DC. It was mostly a disorganized riot.
The military would not have allowed Trump to establish a dictatorship. Only people who have never been in the military and get their ideas from the movies would think that. The one thing they drum into you in the military is that you cannot follow an unconstitutional order. It's more likely that Trump's cabinet would have removed him under the 25th amendment, or the Joint Chiefs of Staff would have taken control and had him executed for sedition.
@LeopoldBloom Nazi Pelosi would be dead if this had been an insurrection. FU Schumer would be dead. Unelected Joe would be dead, if this were an insurrection. Trump would have become a dictator, maybe not for longer than a year, but certainly he could have wiped out the federal government, IF THAT HAD BEEN HIS GOAL. That's the definition of insurrection. As far as Capitol Police being Trump fluffers, you'll have to prove that. Suggesting men hired to protect the Capitol suddenly allow dangerous rioters in because they like Trump is a little ridiculous. Oh, and remember that Trump had called for the National Guard to protect the Capitol and Nazi Pelosi told them to stand down. If the idiots want to call this an insurrection, she is the guilty party.
@Reason10 There are plenty of conservatives in the federal service, especially in law enforcement. The evidence is right there on tape where Trump-worshipping police let the rioters in despite this being a dereliction of duty. Try wandering into the Capitol tomorrow when it's closed and see what happens.
The lie that Nancy Pelosi told the National Guard to stand down has been debunked. We do know that Trump sat with his thumb up his ass watching the riot on TV for hours while Kevin McCarthy, Ivanka, and others begged him to call the National Guard to stop it.
You're assuming that the rioters could have been well-organized and the Congress members wouldn't have been able to escape them. Trump's term would still have ended on Jan. 20 at noon. Continuing beyond that would have violated the Constitution and basically ended the United States that you claim to love so much. Instead, Trump is a disorganized fool and most of the people around him were either bootlickers or equally incompetent. You should read the Georgia indictment which gives the clearest picture of his plan to illegally stay in office. The Jan. 6 riot was a last-ditch effort not to overthrow the government and install himself as dictator. The plan was for Mike Pence to illegally "sent back" several states' votes, allowing fake electors to be appointed and Trump winning the election in the Electoral College.
Again, I never called it an insurrection and as I've already said, Trump's best argument against a 14th amendment disqualification is to take that position.
@ElwoodBlues I don't think the Jan. 6 riot rises to the level of an insurrection or rebellion. On the other hand, the only other person disqualified under the 14th amendment in modern times was Couy Griffin for his own participation on Jan. 6. So if SCOTUS takes that as precedent, they could decide in Colorado's favor.
Trump's other argument could be that he didn't engage in insurrection or rebellion himself, nor did he direct others to do so. "I thought Trump wanted me to do it" may not be sufficient. But the fact that Maine has also disqualified him will force SCOTUS to make a decision.
@MarmeeMarch Lemme just quote a little bit of Jack Smith here:
4. Shortly after election day, the Defendant also pursued unlawful means of discounting legitimate votes and subverting the election results. In so doing, the Defendant perpetrated three criminal conspiracies:
a. A conspiracy to defraud the United States by using dishonesty, fraud, and deceit to impair, obstruct, and defeat the lawful federal government function by which the results of the presidential election are collected, counted, and certified by the federal government, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 371;
b. A conspiracy to corruptly obstruct and impede the January 6 congressional proceeding at which the collected results of the presidential election are counted and certified ("the certification proceeding"), in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512(k);and
c. A conspiracy against the right to vote and to have one's vote counted, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 241. Each of these conspiracies—which built on the widespread mistrust the Defendant was creating through pervasive and destabilizing lies about election fraud—targeted a bedrock function of the United States federal government: the nation's process of collecting, counting, and certifying the results of the presidential election ("the federal government function").
This indictment has been public since Aug 1, @MarmeeMarch. You really need to familiarize yourself with it. https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf
Under the heading The Criminal Agreement and Acts to Effect the Object of the Conspiracy is the list of specific criminal acts by Trump, and it continues for roughly 100 numbered items. This sentence might help you get an exact count:
The Defendant and his co-conspirators committed one or more of the acts to effect the object of the conspiracy alleged above in Paragraphs 13, 15-16, 18-22, 24, 26, 28, 30-33, 35, 37-39, 41, 43-44, 46, 50, 52, 54, 56, 57-64, 67, 71-75, 78-82, 84, 85, 87-97, 99-100, 102-104, 111, 114, 116, 118-119, and 122.
@LeopoldBloom Ashley Babbett was murdere x in cold blood by Michael Byrd. That was the only weapon drawn. No one in the capital was armed. They were escourted by capital police. How is it an inserecttion if every one was unarmed and peaceful. I call for the arrest of Michael Byrd for premeditated murder.
