You claim to be pro-Palestenian but don't support Hamas. Yet you're supportive of a girl who doesn't see Hamas as terrorists?

@Burnley123 What I see here is you doing exactly what has been described. You won't go to her with that sentiment. You post about Israel this and Israel that, perfectly happy to confront anyone who supports Israel but how often are you directly challenging those that are standing with you. You very obviously stay quiet when it comes to Palestine except in your "PR statements" that do nothing to actually challenge these people because you aren't going to them to say it, instead just placing it out in the air where it's easily ignored. You shy away from detraction to your movement from the interpersonal friction. If you don't support Hamas, then tell her that so she doesn't think it's an okay view to have.

One need only look at the response on that post to see how you guys operate. Two of yours sat there helping her out but as soon as she said they weren't terrorists they disappeared like a fart in the wind with no pushback on what was said by her. As of now, a day later none of you have said anything to her. Will you admonish them for this failure to act as well, I doubt it. So is it any wonder people don't believe you? You can prove it to me right now by correcting her [b]and[/b] the inaction of your cohorts with replies to them all. Otherwise it's all meaningless bluster from you.

Let me show you how easy it is

[apalebluedot] you hear that, making posts naming others to attack them is against the terms of service and I've reported this

@Jackaloftheazuresand Its a lot of assumptions of my motivation

I haven't even seen that statement before this guy called it out. I also explicitly criticised it here. I would also do that if it was a conversation I was involved in. I wasn't even involved in that part of the convo.

Even after a post in which I criticise Hamas, I'm still told that this doesn't count because these are 'PR' posts? 😆

The reasons why I criticise Israeli policy more are;
1) they are an ally who our govts have a lot more control over.
2) They are the most powerful party by far.
3) They are killing far more people.
4) Unlike yourself, I don't see terror carried out by a state as belonging to a different category to non state actors.

If you've really read my posts, then you'll know that I'm on record saying that hundreds of thousands of people will die unless the most powerful party in this conflict is forced not to. For someone who has apparently been following me, you are remarkably light on the detail of these arguments.

@Jackaloftheazuresand I've just checked the OP again to see how you rationalise me not calling it out at the time.

Not only was I not involved in that part of the conversation, I wasn't involved in any conversation on the post!

How can I address an issue in a conversation that I'm not even part of?

This is ridiculous! 🤣

@Burnley123 Assumptions that are true. You saw the statement seven hours ago and said nothing to them. These are all excuses from you to assuage your conscience. You clearly play for one side and handwave the other because they are your own, left is always in favor of Palestine on this and so you make up reasons for your bias.

You don't have to be involved initially, you became involved when you saw this post.

@Jackaloftheazuresand 😆

I literally criticised that here but that doesn't count!

It is not a user I know personally know and I am not responsible for every view held by 'my side' of the argument on the internet. No more that you are responsible for alt-right trump supporters.

Now show me (even a 'pr' post 😀) where you have called out the IDF for bombing hospitals and refugee camps. And also called out all the people who've justified that!

Honestly, this is such a pretty pathetic attempt at a gotcha. The ethical hypocrisy is your own and not mine. As is the confirmation bias.

@Burnley123 A facade to save face. The person that should see it likely won't so it only benefits your image and nothing else.

You are however responsible for what you see, you saw it. Unless you want to tell me you didn't even bother looking into the other post before commenting here, which I would expect because it seems this made you antsy since it describes your behavior accurately.

Why would I do that? I'm notorious for accepting collateral from strikes by the US so there's no incongruency to answer for. You though? You pretend.

@Jackaloftheazuresand So not only do I have to condemn Hamas, I have to individually call out any user that has not condemned Hamas on their post, regardless of whether I know them or whether I was even involved in the conversation.

If not I'm a hypocrite?

Right.

😆

Show me again: one single post where you have condemned the IDF for bombing hospitals and refugee camps. You are notorious for nothing. Bombing a refugee camp to get one alleged commando leader is not collateral.

Just one example of you calling out a side committing genocide. Just one...

Blowhard.

@Burnley123 You've already been told how you are involved. We both know you're only here because this post perfectly captures your style and it's from the opposition. You don't jump on the opportunity to reprimand your side like this. You ignore it. That's how you're a hypocrite.

You're going to have to answer the question first... at the very least. Look at how you lash out, even when I cast myself in what many would consider a negative light you try to deny me. Am I getting to you?

@Jackaloftheazuresand Not at all.

You do really seem to have it in for me though. All these judgements about my personality and style. Tut tut.

Have we even met before? I could be wrong but I vaguely remember talking to someone with a name like yours about when Ben Shapiro embarrassed himself on Andrew Neil's show. It was a long time ago. Was that you? Am I still on the dark side? 😜

Oh and I will call out my own side when I think they are wrong and I have even done so here just not in the specific way you want.

You seem to really need this W so go ahead and claim it for all I care. As a footnote, you are tacitly supporting state terrorism killing thousands of people and will never call that out at all.

@Burnley123 No amount of flippancy can hide that nature of yours. It's a shame so many fall for the masquerade but they lie to themselves every day so maybe they are just too caught up in their own fantasy.

Yes that was me. And yes you are every bit the liar you've ever been.
So of course you won't, you'd have to be honest to do that.

If that's what we're calling it then guilty as charged. Enjoy your quiet support of Hamas

@Jackaloftheazuresand I thought it was you because this is so obviously about your own (pertty) personal enmity

From what I remember of that post, you embarrassed yourself just as much as Shapiro did against Neil. It obviously still stings, a few years later, which is pretty tragic tbh.

Maybe I should be flattered by your grudge or maybe you just shouldn't give strong opinions on topics when you don't know what you are talking about because you will found out. Then as now.

I might be a smart arse but I believe everything I say. So... I am not lying when I tell you that:

Andrew Neil is a leftist, about as much as I support Hamas. That is to say, not a lot.

🫤

@Burnley123 Oh yes I hate people like you it's no surprise. Vipers don't get to live in peace around me until they have shown they can be different.

If I were so sure of myself I wouldn't have to dust off my golden oldies. Copium as they say these days. This imagined past where you were victorious is nothing more than a sleight of hand for your failure to rationalize your actions.

@Jackaloftheazuresand I post about this issue because I care about lives lost, not because I want to manipulate people. I really don't.

I think you have issues man. I'm saying that out concern now rather than trying to be a dick. You've obviously had people mistreat you and (whatever I think of your politics) I genuinely hope that you are able to find peace.

@Burnley123 Perhaps you do, that's why I give you and others a chance to show me. I can believe that people only became swept up by other things in pursuit of their goal, lost sight. The ultimatums I give are unreasonable but they only ever cost a person their pride(and some time in following through). The questions I have for you now are if you believe ideas like hers create real harm? And if you do, why is he worth your words but not her, is he more dangerous? If not then what's the point in all of this. I only gave him a basic glance so I very well might have missed it but I don't see him saying he supported Israel's actions either through his replies or posts yet from the beginning you said that he did and asked him to explain those actions as not being terrorism. You can forget the questions if you want. Tell me you see the oddness in that kind of reply from yourself. This would bring me some peace.

@Jackaloftheazuresand I did call it out.

As I said a long time ago, I see this as no more harmful that the words by the mainstream people justifying Israel's actions.

@Burnley123 I'm looking for a counter at the source but okay that's irrelevant to me now.

Tell me you can see it, please

@Jackaloftheazuresand

Thank you for asking. I think I was wrong about you on a personal level and I want to apologise for being a smart arse. I respect that you are prepared to listen to my reasoning, so here you go:

Firstly, I take the principle that all lives matter equally. Throughout the history of this conflict (and especially now), a lot more Palestinians have died than Israelis. I don't see violence done by a state as more or less ethical - of itself - than violence done by paramilitaries.

Even if we take at face value that Israel is primarily concerned with security, they are killing ten to a hundred people to protect every Israeli life. The most powerful party does not want a ceasefire and a lot more will die, almost all of them on one side.

When mainstream politicians say "Israel has the right to defend itself," that sounds reasonable at face value. I think that Israel has a right to defend itself. What Israel is actually doing is attacking. They are bombing civilian areas and cutting off food and power to a city of two million people. So the narrative that Israel is defending itself is dangerously disingenuous. Those words of our leaders give diplomatic cover for the Israelis to kill scores of thousands of people.

Also, the language that Hamas is using human shields is dangerous because it blurs the line between civilians and combatants. If you are a Palestinian family and a Hamas unit moves into the next street, you don't really have control of that situation. Then an Israeli air strike wipes out fifty people and their government goes on TV telling the world that you and your dead family were human shields.

When ordinary people repeat these narratives, they do not usually realise what these words are giving cover to. This rhetoric gives an excuse for the mass death of ordinary people, most of them from Muslim families who are already living in awful third-world conditions. Bomb the ghetto and watch it burn, in the name of defence.

When the girl called out by the OP called Hamas "freedom fighters," she is probably doing so because of this and because she thinks that Hamas is the only active military force resisting an apartheid-style military occupation imposed on her Muslim brothers and sisters. She is not saying that because she wants to kill Jews.

However, IMO she is wrong to defend Hamas because one of their strategies is to kill Israeli civilians. The young people killed at the festival and the kibbutz residents are people, with lives hopes and dreams as much as the Gaza residents. They did not deserve to die.

So she [b]is [/b]wrong about that but no more wrong than all of the people who are (however unwittingly) giving cover for a brutal military force that is currently laying waste to an impoverished city.