Why to secular western leftists support Islamic terrorist groups?
*Newsflash, we don't!* Also, told y'all that after 9/11 and said some other stuff too.
41-45, M
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SW-User
A good way to demonstrate this is by protesting against Gaza's government and their "military" wing, who waged war on Israel by infiltrating its territory and massacring its civilians, carrying out numerous atrocities in the process.
Why isn't the left demanding that Hamas make peace? Why aren't any of the protestors calling for Hamas to leave Gaza?
Gaza does not belong to Israel, yet people seem to think that Israel is responsible for it.
There has long been evidence of the left seeking to appease extremism from certain factions, and it has manifested in some disturbing ways. In this instance, it has culminated in the minimization, justification, or denial of a massacre. Those on the left expect Israel to act like a responsible party who lives next to a non-genocidal entity, that does not have the enduring, unwavering goal of ending Israel and taking back former "Palestinian" lands.
Hamas does not have the sheer number of missiles and weaponry that Israel does, but understand that they have enough to commit more massacres, and that they are rich. They receive many millions from Iran, have a number of anonymous foreign donors, heavily tax their citizens in Gaza, and keep charitable aid.
9/11 was very different. For instance, the U.S did not have to live next to Bin Laden or Al-Qaeda. People in many of Southern Israel's kibbutzim are now displaced, because it is too dangerous to live there after the unprecedented attacks by Hamas.
How is Israel going to ensure that people can safely be returned to their homes, and not be massacred again? Do understand that I am not personally advocating a specific military strategy, but asking you what you propose to make this possible.
Does Hamas give the impression of an entity seeking to find a peaceful solution, where the rights of Gazans and Israelis are recognized and respected?
Why isn't the left demanding that Hamas make peace? Why aren't any of the protestors calling for Hamas to leave Gaza?
Gaza does not belong to Israel, yet people seem to think that Israel is responsible for it.
There has long been evidence of the left seeking to appease extremism from certain factions, and it has manifested in some disturbing ways. In this instance, it has culminated in the minimization, justification, or denial of a massacre. Those on the left expect Israel to act like a responsible party who lives next to a non-genocidal entity, that does not have the enduring, unwavering goal of ending Israel and taking back former "Palestinian" lands.
Hamas does not have the sheer number of missiles and weaponry that Israel does, but understand that they have enough to commit more massacres, and that they are rich. They receive many millions from Iran, have a number of anonymous foreign donors, heavily tax their citizens in Gaza, and keep charitable aid.
9/11 was very different. For instance, the U.S did not have to live next to Bin Laden or Al-Qaeda. People in many of Southern Israel's kibbutzim are now displaced, because it is too dangerous to live there after the unprecedented attacks by Hamas.
How is Israel going to ensure that people can safely be returned to their homes, and not be massacred again? Do understand that I am not personally advocating a specific military strategy, but asking you what you propose to make this possible.
Does Hamas give the impression of an entity seeking to find a peaceful solution, where the rights of Gazans and Israelis are recognized and respected?
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
SW-User
@Burnley123 I thought it was important to mention how you can protest against Hamas, and not only Israel.
If you insist.
I thought we agreed to stay off each other's posts?
If you insist.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@SW-User I insisted on nothing. I suggested it and you agreed. Because you've gone back on your word, I am going to respond. Sigh
SW-User
@Burnley123 I said:
Is wishing you well the same as agreeing to stay away from your posts? Possibly, or possibly not.
In this case, it seems pertinent to address how liberals are not holding Hamas to account, demanding that they make peace, or calling for them to leave Gaza.
I don't know why these questions can't be answered. I think they are valid questions to ask. My mind can't help but inquire...
I feel deeply for people who have been slaughtered, and their relatives who have been left with nothing but their pain and anguish. Harming children is wrong, and people's explanation for this is wrong.
Anyway, I wish you well, too.
Is wishing you well the same as agreeing to stay away from your posts? Possibly, or possibly not.
In this case, it seems pertinent to address how liberals are not holding Hamas to account, demanding that they make peace, or calling for them to leave Gaza.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@SW-User I'm sure
You've also posted to say that the West bank is no Palestinian land. It's a formulation that desires only one outcome.
The left has condemned Hamas and is calling for an immediate ceasefire. Israel does not want a ceasefire.
At the current time, Israel is the most powerful party and it is the one doing the bombing and starving of civilians. In addition it is a western ally so we have more influence.
As I've said, nobody is defending or supporting Hamas
You've also posted to say that the West bank is no Palestinian land. It's a formulation that desires only one outcome.
The left has condemned Hamas and is calling for an immediate ceasefire. Israel does not want a ceasefire.
At the current time, Israel is the most powerful party and it is the one doing the bombing and starving of civilians. In addition it is a western ally so we have more influence.
As I've said, nobody is defending or supporting Hamas
SW-User
@Burnley123 The West Bank belonged to Jordan. Before that, it was the British, and before that, it was the Ottoman Empire.
"Condemned" is a mild word to use for baby murder, isn't it? Hamas is a government, with its own military wing. This government decided to murder civilians in another territory, inflicting pain and torture on people in their homes. Israel is responding, but only they are receiving criticism and demands for a ceasefire.
Hamas are not making a ceasefire feasible, as they continue to fire rockets into Israel. Israel has managed to intercept at least one other attempt at infiltrating Israeli territory, too.
Israel isn't starving Gaza. Hamas run Gaza, and they have the funds and the ability to ensure that food goes to Gaza. They share a border crossing with Egypt, where it is possible for them to receive essentials. People speak of "collective punishment", but they are silent about the collective punishment that was inflicted on Israelis by Hamas. In the eyes of the progressive liberals, and sadly others, of the world, they are simply Jewish settlers who should not be there. This is a backwards and abominable way of thinking.
Israel is not the most powerful party, not when they have had 1,400 of their own civilians murdered by Hamas inside their own borders. Did any Israelis have any power when they were being massacred three weeks ago? No, they did not. Many commenters on social media, and in the mainstream media, seem to have no horror at what Hamas did. I have seen numerous commenters only make reference to the festival attack in Israel, while ignoring the atrocious massacre in the communities. Some people are doing this through ignorance, others with intent. Even when it is through ignorance, it is disturbing. It is disturbing that they have no knowledge of what happened to innocent children.
Regarding support for terrorism, I maintain that the best way to show you are against this is by protesting and calling for Hamas to end their violent struggle against Israel.
If Israel had not responded to Hamas by sending missiles into Gaza, it would still be in the wrong. That is, according to those who are against its existence.
"Condemned" is a mild word to use for baby murder, isn't it? Hamas is a government, with its own military wing. This government decided to murder civilians in another territory, inflicting pain and torture on people in their homes. Israel is responding, but only they are receiving criticism and demands for a ceasefire.
Hamas are not making a ceasefire feasible, as they continue to fire rockets into Israel. Israel has managed to intercept at least one other attempt at infiltrating Israeli territory, too.
Israel isn't starving Gaza. Hamas run Gaza, and they have the funds and the ability to ensure that food goes to Gaza. They share a border crossing with Egypt, where it is possible for them to receive essentials. People speak of "collective punishment", but they are silent about the collective punishment that was inflicted on Israelis by Hamas. In the eyes of the progressive liberals, and sadly others, of the world, they are simply Jewish settlers who should not be there. This is a backwards and abominable way of thinking.
Israel is not the most powerful party, not when they have had 1,400 of their own civilians murdered by Hamas inside their own borders. Did any Israelis have any power when they were being massacred three weeks ago? No, they did not. Many commenters on social media, and in the mainstream media, seem to have no horror at what Hamas did. I have seen numerous commenters only make reference to the festival attack in Israel, while ignoring the atrocious massacre in the communities. Some people are doing this through ignorance, others with intent. Even when it is through ignorance, it is disturbing. It is disturbing that they have no knowledge of what happened to innocent children.
Regarding support for terrorism, I maintain that the best way to show you are against this is by protesting and calling for Hamas to end their violent struggle against Israel.
If Israel had not responded to Hamas by sending missiles into Gaza, it would still be in the wrong. That is, according to those who are against its existence.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@SW-User Here is the account from a civilian journalist who has lot twenty family members to IDF bombs. Twenty. The government you support is doing that and has already notched up 8,000 dearhs. It's only getting started.
[media=https://youtu.be/tR9TOKjKPwU]
I know you don't realise this because you genuinely think that this is about protecting your own people but you are wrong. Your government is in the process of committing genocide and ethnic cleansing and your position on that is one of tacit support.
How many Palestinian lives is one Israeli worth? Is it ten, one hundred or one thousand?
[media=https://youtu.be/tR9TOKjKPwU]
I know you don't realise this because you genuinely think that this is about protecting your own people but you are wrong. Your government is in the process of committing genocide and ethnic cleansing and your position on that is one of tacit support.
How many Palestinian lives is one Israeli worth? Is it ten, one hundred or one thousand?
SW-User
@Burnley123 The baby in this thumbnail/picture is very sweet. I do feel sad when I see it.
I do not live in Israel. But, I have been and stayed there many times, and know many who live there. I have never said that I support their government. All governments should be questioned. People are better off when there is less government. It is impossible to ignore that political division in Israel led to complacency and misplaced priorities. Nonetheless, judges are no different from politicians in their poor and unfair judgments. They too are the state. These are two entities who have an undeserved power, and people were arguing over which should get more freedom to make their subjective, arrogant, and exclusionary judgments? Why? Only the judge and the politician get to decide, and then their minions in the lesser authorities do their nefarious work.
There were abject intelligence, security and defense failings as well. If civilians are going to live in the communities (built and cultivated by the founders) in the lands of southern Israel, they should receive better protections. Most of them are parents with children, or are elderly.
Israel is compelled, if not obligated, to respond when large numbers of its civilians are murdered, with entire communities being infiltrated by Hamas. This idea that they ought to stand by and allow Hamas to attack, until the inevitable consequence is that there are no Jews left, is absurd and horrifying. It extends to the issues that have taken place in the West over the past 10-15 years. If you are the party who is seen as more privileged, you must not respond when other people violate you. There were villains before you, and you will become a racist, phobic, and fascist villain if you dare to fight back.
The left is not calling for less action, they are calling for no action.
"There is no justification for killing 13 children while they are sleeping in their bed..."
This is what Ahmed Alnaouq, in the video above, said.
It is true.
I wouldn't want to be a soldier sending missiles into Gaza. I also wouldn't want to be someone who is ignoring or minimizing what Hamas did, and is seemingly fine with them doing it again.
I do not live in Israel. But, I have been and stayed there many times, and know many who live there. I have never said that I support their government. All governments should be questioned. People are better off when there is less government. It is impossible to ignore that political division in Israel led to complacency and misplaced priorities. Nonetheless, judges are no different from politicians in their poor and unfair judgments. They too are the state. These are two entities who have an undeserved power, and people were arguing over which should get more freedom to make their subjective, arrogant, and exclusionary judgments? Why? Only the judge and the politician get to decide, and then their minions in the lesser authorities do their nefarious work.
There were abject intelligence, security and defense failings as well. If civilians are going to live in the communities (built and cultivated by the founders) in the lands of southern Israel, they should receive better protections. Most of them are parents with children, or are elderly.
Israel is compelled, if not obligated, to respond when large numbers of its civilians are murdered, with entire communities being infiltrated by Hamas. This idea that they ought to stand by and allow Hamas to attack, until the inevitable consequence is that there are no Jews left, is absurd and horrifying. It extends to the issues that have taken place in the West over the past 10-15 years. If you are the party who is seen as more privileged, you must not respond when other people violate you. There were villains before you, and you will become a racist, phobic, and fascist villain if you dare to fight back.
The left is not calling for less action, they are calling for no action.
"There is no justification for killing 13 children while they are sleeping in their bed..."
This is what Ahmed Alnaouq, in the video above, said.
It is true.
I wouldn't want to be a soldier sending missiles into Gaza. I also wouldn't want to be someone who is ignoring or minimizing what Hamas did, and is seemingly fine with them doing it again.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M