Novara Media on Israel Palestine.

@Northwest That's not really dealing with the video that I posted or the points it made. I appreciate that it's an hour long so it takes a lot to sift through it all and digest it.

This is what I think and I'm happy to stand by it.

@Northwest Maybe start by worrying about the people calling for holy war in the region in your own congress. Might be more productive.

@Northwest Your whataboutism that even Burnley pointed out is irrelevant to the topic at hand. But if religious nuts are something you actually are concerned about instead of just your usual trolling you might be more productive being concerned over the religious extremists in your own back yard.....but that would mean doing actual work and not just trolling online.

It also speaks volumes you can't get through a single response without childish insults.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
This is a pathetic passive aggressive move, but what's new? Doesn't apply here BTW.


Another topic dummy, and need I remind you that going Cujo on me, is YOUR choice, with your trollish butting in?


Sorry, but how else do you want me to deal with your child-like "intellect"?

@Burnley123
The first 14 minutes, deals with a specific term "Jihad" and how that context was used by politicians/law enforcement. It is one of the key points made in the video. The Context of that term is also discussed throughout.

What's missing is the perspective of the individual who shouted that term, which is what I am sensitive to.

@Northwest And hmmm I wonder who are the greater threat with threats of holy war. A tiny bunch of groups of non state actors whose most effective weapons are glorified bottle rockets or the ones who control the most powerful military force in recorded human history.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
You should really stop replying, and this is a public service message, to help you avoid further embarrassment.

Iran is NOT a non-state actor, and it is paying, training and arming the non-state actors, who are poised to attack on Iran's orders.

The Mullahs in Iran's only acceptable outcome is Shiaa Islam's hegemony over Jerusalem and the Al Aqsa mosque, and the dismantling of Israel. Your whatboutism does not erase that.

@Northwest And back to insults because you have no counter argument. Predictable.


And back to claiming every group against the west in the middle east is an Iranian borg drone.


And we get it. You are a right wing reactionary larping as a liberal and concern trolling. No need to double down on the Breitbart islamophobia narrative.

Kind of a self report here. 😂


And the whataboutism are what you have been pulling here.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
And that of course is a lie on your end, but what's new. But what else do you have? It's not like you understand anything about the Middle East, but you insist on embarrassing yourself.


And another lie.


Another lie.

@Northwest Not a lie. That is your entire argument grafted with far right islamophobia straight from the most reactionary corners of US punditry.

I am sorry you are too much of a coward to stand by your own garbage politics.

At least people like Mark Levin or Ben Shapiro can be respected on some level because they don't run away from their politics when called out.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
You are so predictable, Rebel Without A Clue.


And another strawman.


And a failed attempt at a combo whataboutism/strawman.

@Northwest You call me predictable yet all you an do is throw the exact same recycled personal insults for the last year. 😂


You really don't know what a strawman is do you?


But keep running away from your own arguments. It is what you are good at.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
Weirdly enough, I have not run away from any arguments, but it's not that difficult to understand that you don't want to discuss my arguments, and instead you're obfuscating and whatabout'ing.

Here's my argument: the Iranian Mullahs have an anti-Jewish agenda, and they are the main force behind several groups in the Middle East.

Your argument: USA bad.

@Northwest I appreciate the sensitivity.

What Novara were going is to critique the idea that anyone who chants that must be a terrorist and supporter of Hamas motivated by anti semitism. large sections of our media have also tried to present everyone in the pro Palestinian movement as being part of that

There is, unfortunately, a small section of the UK Muslim community that is genuinely anti Semitic and blames 'the jews' for what is happening in Palestine. This is repugnant.

There are others who do indeed use the term jihad to mean something different. I really wish they wouldn't use that at all.

The UK police is fairly conservative and wouldn't be shy about locking up someone who they thought was advocating for terrorism. That the Tories are so right wing, that they are they even falling out with the police interpretations of Tory laws. This includes the latest public order act, which means that protesters can be locked up for disruption. Also, in the background context of the Novara piece, is that Braverman wrote a leaked letter to police chiefs that effectively tried to criminalise the Palestinian flag.

@Northwest And predictably now you are accusing me of your tactics.

You have proven you use terms you don't know the definition of so that doesn't mean much.


And openly said that basically everyone on the Palestinian side are all Iranian drones and have no agency and that they are a giant death cult. You also said the far right Islamophobes are right about taht.


Your argument is that America is good and moral and work back from that conclusion.

Typical of any far right reactionary you accuse anyone who is critical of the west in any way of being anti American as if that is a real argument.


You are about as much of a liberal and as credible as MarkPaul. Someone you went to bat for just to be contrarian with me too btw.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow northwest and I have disagreements on this issue your insults towards him are both incorrect and disingenuous.

I hate strawmannong, even when it is done by my own side.

@Burnley123 Insults? I am not the one making personal attacks here. 80% of his responses to me are insults to my intelligence with nothing else.


All I did was respond with his own positions on other posts on the topic. If he can't stand by his own politics that is his issue, not mine.

@Burnley123
That point is clear, and did not go over my head.

It is, however, one of the main issues that plague "leftist" efforts, in Western countries.

My opinion, and of course this is simply my opinion, is that this video should have dealt with this issue head-on, instead of trying hard to find some other interpretations of the term. It engages in the same tactic it accuses the other side of doing.

I am fluent in Arabic, and I've read the Qur'an. When I see it in Arab-language media, that term means only one thing. It is also possible that the person who shouted it may not even understand Arabic. Muslims can only recite the Qur'an in Arabic, a language 90% of them do not understand.

I fully understand however, the point the video makes, and how some in the UK are looking for an excuse to steer a largely confused pubic, toward a specific narrative.

So to Novara, I say: own it, face it, and don't make it look like you're obfuscating. That goes a long way toward swaying public opinion.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow You said he was a neocon, in favour of breitbart narratives and accusing all Israeli critics' of being Iran drones.

This is what you specifically said and all of it is false.

On the left, we have plenty of sound and logical reasons to disagree with liberals, on this and other issues, but instead of articulating that you are just going for cheap shots.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
That would be a fabrication on your part. But what else do you have going for you?


And note that I did not say anything about America. Yet, you are.

Strawman: An intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
"her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.
"a photogenic straw man gets inserted into office and advisers dictate policy"

@Burnley123 If he doesn't want to be called a neocon maybe he should not use identical narratives and openly state that they are correct on this.

Also he is the one who is dealing in generalities and pretends nuance and agency doesn't exist for any of these groups of people.

I am repeating back things he has pretty openly stated over the last few days.


He made these arguments, not me so I am working with positions he has taken. That is not up to me.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
And you lie, again. You're like a fucking broken record, you Rebel Without A Clue.

@Northwest And back to accusing me of lying because I throw your own positions back at you.

And more childish insults....actually the same childish insults you have used for at least a year now.

Speaks volumes that that is all you have for 12 plus months.