Thoughts on white people having to pay slavery reparations?

Poll - Total Votes: 96

Yes, they should- it's only fair, and an equalizer

No, that makes no sense and is stupid asf

You can only vote on one answer.

Probably gonna delete this post if my notifications are going off for forever. But rn I'm interested and in a drama kinda mood lmao.

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Scribbles · 36-40, F

I think it is in the best interests of all of humanity to raise each other up. Full stop.

History has shown us what happens when we don't raise each other up, but tear, isolate, or push each other down instead.
:(

This happens in every country. It's a global issue.

It's a fool who doesn't see the need to understand history or the causes of unequal treatment, discrimination, oppression, disparities and biases or a need to be sensitive to it, or make changes to create a better society.

Standing up for each other in everyday life and listening to what is going on in different communities is a good start, if you do not have an opinion regarding equality, politics or socioeconomics.

A good reparation is one that raises all of humanity up in my opinion. We should all be invested in one other's prosperity. We should ALL have long-term goals, not just short-term financial, political, social, public health, equality, environmental, and economic goals, etc.
I'm including all that, because most people have differing ideas of what issue is most important to them.

There are alot of Americans (USA) chiming in so I want to say that when it comes to America...I'm not saying we need to suddenly adopt all the social safety nets, hate crime laws, tax systems, and healthcare system, environmental policies, worker rights, reparations, etc, and capitalism structure and society that exists in Canada, Japan, or Europe, or Germany or all kinds of different countries may or may not be doing (Though I admire lots of different things that different countries are doing or have done and think some things would benefit America because the issue has been solved elsewhere) because:

I don't think Republicans at least will accept doing anything like anybody else does. They are too "nationalist" for that. Plus every society has unique problems within their own system, and we would still need to sort out and fix those problems. And like it or not, I and many others have to accept that republicans make up a significant part of society and they aren't going to go away or listen up to others. So maybe a little American inovation needs to figure out how to evaluate American "low road" and brutalistic capitalism and social care as a country and tweak things so as to actually solve the problems we face...rather then endless protests with little change and lots of misinformation. We do need to find our way and face our unique challenges and problems.

What that will end up looking like or being, I have no idea. It's a bit worrisome.

To me, reparations in ANY country probably means investing in neighborhoods and people that need it. It means investing in programs that actually serve communities and fill needs, and help prevent crime. It means making opportunities, housing, education, safety, healthy food, employment and healthcare attainable universally.
Making sure companies abide by environmental policies and don't poison neighborhoods and water sources for example. Thinking long-term about green policies. Figure out a way to give all neighborhoods the power, capital, and accountability to do neccesary things like fix lead pipes, have healthy food, safe neighborhoods, create a new clinic, school, create positive policy changes, create meaningful businesses and jobs that serve the community and society and not just make the rich richer...etc. Because politicians often act more like a greedy and corrupt board of directors who abuse others for their gain.

Figure out a way to make sure there are resources and services available for all communities at the highest possible quality, and a cost that creates prosperity for CEO's, shareholders, workers, and communities. And not just the group who happens to hold the most power. Make sure that diversity is respected instead of rejected and discriminated against and oppressed. This should be common for all races, genders, cultural background, religious, or nonreligious, and for citizens or immigrants.

Idk. Just what I first thought, when I saw this post.

Ynotisay · M

@Scribbles Well stated. I think it comes down to how reparations would actually play out. And what people perceive them to be.
There's already a whole lot of money flowing solely to black communities. U.S. companies collectively pledged 80 BILLION following the George Floyd protests. That's an enormous amount of money. But there could be more. Investments, like you said, will deliver positive outcomes. As long as people take advantage of those new opportunities.
Paying money to individuals? As a "We're sorry? I think it's wildly counter-productive. Outside of it being logistically impossible to implement fairly it would create even more division. Even among black people. And nothing would change.

LeeInTheNorthWoods · 70-79, F

@Scribbles I appreciate your thoughts and sentiments. But what reparations did the British pay the Irish? Are Koreans getting money from the Japanese? Of course not. They created their own prosperity.

If you're not AMerican, you may be surprised to learn than peoples of Asian heritage attain the highest levels of education in the U.S. and they are on average (per capita) more prosperous than white people. Are we pretending that Asians were not discriminated against in the past? I know the excuse that blacks face special circumstances, but after decades -- decades -- of special programs intended to lift the black population at large into the social and economic mainstream, we have to admit that "special" designations have produced disappointing results.

What possible benefit could there be in just handing money over to specific individuals? In what way would that possibly produce large scale benefits that affirmative action, revised school curricula, welfare programs, etc. have produced? Wouldn't focusing on in-tact two-parent families, safe neighborhoods, school choice in geographic areas where public schools are failing, and education programs that prepare children for prosperous adulthood result in more positive outcomes?

The civil rights movement of the 1950s and 60s became the civil rights industry of the 70s and today. People like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and TV news personalities have become multi-millionaires. What have they done to improve the lives of other blacks? Reduce poverty? Make neighborhoods safer? Create better education opportunities? The answer is obviously nothing. But each continues to accumulate wealth without producing results. You can include the Obamas and folks like Kamala Harris, Rashida Tlaib, and Ayanna Pressley in that group.

Isn't demanding reparations simply their latest scam?

I know there's nothing I can say that will change minds; and we will continue to see further social, education, and economic "diversity" as people abandon large cities to safer and more segregated locations.

Okay, now tell me I'm a murderous racist.

Ynotisay · M

@LeeInTheNorthWoods I won't tell you that you're a murderous racist. That's poor me stuff. But I will say that people like Sharpton and Jackson have changed the lives of countless people. You might not agree with them but to dismiss them as doing 'nothing' is foolish. Those are civil rights leaders. They've impacted millions. Take a few minutes to learn about their organizations they've started or led. Maybe it'll slow your roll. And as far as them being in it for the money? Get real. Yeah. They're millionaires. People of note and responsibility usually make money. But each of their net worth's [i]combined[/i] is about 60% of what Elon Musk makes in a DAY. So no. It's not a money play.

LeeInTheNorthWoods · 70-79, F

@Ynotisay Elon Musk developed a technology and started a company that employs thousands of people and improves Earth's environment. So shameful that he made money that way. You can't say anything like that about Jackson, Sharpton, or any of the others.

And please explain how, exactly, any of them changed the lives of anybody for the better. Can you come up with some specific examples, as opposed to broad and wishful blanket statements. Maybe you need to learn more about the organizations they've led, or profited from?

Al Sharpton became rich and famous by taking advantage of poor Tawana Brawley who made false rape claims against mysterious, anonymous white men. At one point, Sharpton claimed members of the Irish Republic Army raped her. Sharpton also had to pay $65,00 when he lost a defamation case against a county prosecutor, Steven Pagones, whom Sharpton claimed was among the "rapists". Yes, Sharpton has done so much for so many.

Jesse Jackson was kicked out of the South Christian Leadership Conference (remember M.L. King?) because he refused to account for funds flowing to him from SCLC events.

ALL of this is very easy to confirm. Sewing seeds of hatred and racial division isn't helping anyone except the people who make money from it.

By the way, Jesse Jackson, Jr. was a U.S. Congressman, but his service ended when he did hard time in a federal prison for wire and mail fraud. But, I guess he also helped millions of people.

Is that getting real enough for you?

Ynotisay · M

@LeeInTheNorthWoods Well look at you. Supporting a manipulator, who many consider a con artist, who uses people for his own gain and going after someone's son.
Sort of resembles another current situation, huh?
Sit down with that shit man. No room at my Inn for that nonsense.

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Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@Scribbles Excellent points. Thanks for discussing them.

Ynotisay · M

@Scribbles Well stated but...

[i]You point out that there have been programs and benefits. Which ones are you referring to, please?[/i]

Outside of things like Civil Rights and Affirmative Action (which are real things) over the past couple of years U.S. businesses have pledged $80 Billion to go directly to black communities. Not Hispanic, Asian or poor white communities. Of which there are many. And that's Billion with a "B."

I guess what I"m interested in is where the money is supposed to come from? The Federal government? Well, the federal government waged a Civil War to, in essence, end slavery. 360,000 Union soldiers lost their lives in the process. Now what the federal government has done recently has cut black child poverty by 30% via the American Rescue Plan. That's just one example. There's so much going on right now around black owned business and home ownership. You can find a whole lot more here if you're interested. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. It just doesn't carry the same level of provocation. This is the stuff that changes lives. People don't see to care much about that. Maybe it's because with some of these efforts other minority groups are included. Maybe that's a bad thing.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/02/27/fact-sheet-the-biden-%E2%81%A0harris-administration-advances-equity-and-opportunity-for-black-americans-and-communities-across-the-country/

Do you want money go to individuals? OK. What does that look like? How much money? How is that implemented? Who qualifies? Every black person? Well, not every black is a descendant of a slave, right? So is it about slavery or not? And what financial reparations do for the wealth gap? Nothing, right? It really IS those programs that will and are making a difference. But I'm not sure that's what people want. What I think they want is revenge. And separation. And in this case, that's all it would be. No good would come from it. But I'm sure you can see the bad that would arise.

Scribbles · 36-40, F

@Ynotisay Are you having me on, or did I really write my former comment in too much of a hurry and ended up confusing everyone?

As I have stated over and over: I do think that programs that lift up neighborhoods and stop racism will be what will make the difference. That's why I go on and on about pre-distribution. (Not a cash payout model) and about all communities prospering together being important.

And yeah, there are a few programs that have been beneficial and it's NOT a bad thing that is meant to help lots of minorities, and I'm glad it has helped lots of people and yeah it has helped cut some child poverty. And there is absolutely a rising middle class now of minorities which is good.
I just get frustrated when I see some of my friends struggling. Or see that a racist policy doesn't get changed, you know?

I partly questioned programs so harshly because I run into people who think each and every program have all been these amazing transformative things. And that minorities are just greedy and wasteful. I hate that outlook.

People want separation and revenge? I don't see that.

Ok I know this is anecdotal....but I don't know any people, who boots on the ground want actual separation or revenge against anyone except revenge against police. Every single one I know just wants racist policies to change, for racism to end, for their kids to be able to get good jobs, be safe and be happy. The ones I know who support cash reparations do so because they think it's fair they get it since reparations have been done in the past for others. This is also partly why I'm not against it either. I do think a lot of money would be spent creating the infrastructure needed for people to try to prove if they had an ancestor who was a slave. But if that's what people really want...then idk. Who am I to say anything different. Idk

I wonder if anyone has mentioned halvsies? Part of the money is cash ,and the majority for programs?

Anyway, I don't want to argue.
We agree mostly anyway, I think.

Scribbles · 36-40, F

@Diotrephes Thanks, I worry I'm just coming across as confusing though. :/

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@Ynotisay The Union did not fight the war to end slavery The Union fought to keep the Union unified. The Confederates fought to expand slavery. And if you know anything about American history you would know that slavery is still legal in America. Some States have taken steps to end slavery in their areas by deleting it from their State constitutions but it is still legal in the federal constitution. BTW, traditional slavery continued in a couple of the Union States after the war.

So, take some time to brush up on American history and please refrain from posting false information.

Ynotisay · M

@Diotrephes But there was that whole Emancipation Proclamation thing, right? And the most important thing for the South to protect was slavery. That's where it all funneled down. But outside of that, if you'll notice I put the phrase "in essence" in italics. I did that for a reason.
I'm pretty brushed up on the history thanks but appreciate it. At least enough to know that I'm not curious enough to ask why the 13th Amendment doesn't exist in your world. Have fun with that.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@Ynotisay The Emancipation Proclamation just made the southern slaves the Union army encountered property, which the army could then possess. It did not apply to areas that were not in rebellion It had nothing to do with ending slavery since slavery is still legal in America. There were public slave auctions after the 13th Amendment became effective.

One of the the things the Union army did to those slaves was to put them into concentration camps, where tens of thousands of them died. They were never free.

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@Diotrephes For some reasons or other, Lincoln's Emancipation didn't include slaves in quite a few places.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@Heartlander [quote]For some reasons or other, Lincoln's Emancipation didn't include slaves in quite a few places.[/quote]
That is because Lincoln had zero interest in flooding the country with freed slaves. He was solely interested in keeping the country united. If he had lived he would have pushed for the complete deportation of Blacks from America. The country is multi-racial because he was murdered.

Neoerectus · M

@LeeInTheNorthWoods Elon took over Tesla from the original founders. He is not a genius, but a huckster salesman.