Where do Conservatives get the impression that socialism means not having money or the government paying people not to work?

@redredred That's not Socialism. Please open a book sometime.

@BohemianBabe I have a masters degree in economics. I know what socialism is. There’s nothing in the meme I posted you have yet to disprove.

@redredred Oh, really? Tell me what Socialism is. What traits does a society need to have for it to be socialist?

@redredred Actually, it's happened many times. Simple examples are Kaliflower Commune, and Nonagon Commune.

I'm not saying these experiments were terribly successful, but to claim it never happened is flat out false.

In any case, the game right-wingers play is to pretend that democratic socialism - the system of government George Orwell so strongly advocated - is indistinguishable from Communism.

@ElwoodBlues What actual claim do you have on what others have earned?

And the failure of those communes and places like Oneida are ample evidence that socialism simply doesn’t work. Unlike capitalism, socialism and communism can only be sustained by government force.

@redredred I'm just pointing out that the "This has never happened" claim in your meme is dead wrong. I never said those experiments were particularly successful.

I'm also pointing out that "social democracy" is very different from socialism, and so critiques of socialism in modern political discourse are usually straw man fallacies.

@redredred yet capitalism has been sustained by the government as well as the rich capitalist bosses

@Guitarman123 No one forces you to buy a Chevrolet, a Subway sandwich, Aetna Insurance, Reebok sneakers, or Sony speakers. No government forces you to buy anything in a market economy . Collectivist economies force you to buy only from the state.

@redredred that's greatly encouraged in this capitalist system to become a boss and exploit people for profit whereas socialists advocate for common ownership

@Guitarman123 @redredred Most modern economies mix a bit of socialism in with (regulated) capitalism. Socialist elements in the US economy include national defense, police, and many elements of infrastructure.

We also have regulated monopolies for delivery of many utilities like electricity and natural gas. We also have strict regulations on banking & securities, food & drugs, workplace safety, vehicles, etc. Within this structure of regulation there's still plenty of room to pursue profit and wealth.

@ElwoodBlues theirs too much room to pursue profit and wealth, so much so that public services and workers wages are badly neglected. Although the uk where I live has a mixed economy the NHS is in ruins at the moment and people are getting real terms pay cuts while wealthy corporation bosses are getting wealthier still

@ElwoodBlues Even in mixed economies we could do better. I'm from Germany and only a few days into the new year top Managers have earned more than an average worker in a whole year. That can't be right.

@PrincessOfHell the social Democratic party also has roots in Marxism

@Guitarman123 All workers parties and parties that advocate for workers rights and social policies can be traced back to Marx. Some proudly mention it while others don't fearing it would scare a bit more right leaning voters off.

@PrincessOfHell ye some people seem to think marx had similar views to Hitler

@Guitarman123 Thanks to anti-communist propaganda. Most critics haven't read anything from him.

@PrincessOfHell clearly so as obviously they had absolutely nothing in common

@PrincessOfHell Personally, I've never read Marx. But professional historians I know say that, oversimplified, Marx's diagnosis of 1800s capitalism was spot on, and his prescription was terrible.

@ElwoodBlues His prescription wasn't terrible just vague and not completly fleshed out since his main focus was to diagnose Capitalist failure and did not focus as much on an alternative system.

@ElwoodBlues his prescription as you call it was the working class to overthrow the capitalist system and establish common ownership of the means of production

@Guitarman123 Yeah, and instead of rule by the proletariat, what was instituted was rule by a minority class, totalitarianism, and a relatively inefficient form of it. Movement towards classless society never occurred.

@ElwoodBlues Well stalins ussr became a industrial powerhouse as a opposed to a backward equarian country it had been before Lenin established the ussr. Lenin believed socialism could only be achieved below by the workers whereas stalin thought it could be achieved from above and nationally as opposed to international which is what marx and engels believed

@Guitarman123 I would have prefered Trotzki as Lenins successor

@PrincessOfHell think Lenin would have as well, certainly didn't want stalin in charge

@Guitarman123 Stalin treated his citizens like slaves and animals. NOT the way to attain a "worker's paradise." If Stalinism is the answer, I can't imagine how insane the question would be.