I'll preface this by saying my best friend is a straight man. But are you guys okay?

The Secret Service just released a 28-page report. To sum it up; "men who can't get women to have sex with them pose a terroristic threat".

The word for them is Incels - Involuntarily Celibate. Men who can't get women to date them frequently become terrorists. These men believe that are entitled to sex with women and they believe they are entitled to attack and kill women who refuse.

So basically the Secret Service wrote a whole report on what girls learned by 12... A little addendum; in 2022, Japanese schools are still banning ponytails because they could "sexually excite men". Do men really have so little self-control? At what point do we stop blaming women?

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LeopoldBloom · M

First off, I haven't read the report and am not familiar with it. I would agree that incels are a problem. However, I wouldn't go so far as to call them a terrorist threat. The only one that comes to mind is Elliott Rodgers, who killed several of his fellow students that he referred to as "Chads" and "Stacys." Otherwise, most mass killings in the U.S. have not been perpetrated by men I would consider incels. The man who killed several Asian women in Atlanta a year ago apparently came from a hyper-religious background, and seems to have fetishized that group.

I do think that this frustration may be an element in why young men from Muslim backgrounds may be drawn to ISIS or al Qaeda or other groups that emphasize purity and misogyny. It's possible that American groups like the Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, Oath Keepers, Three Percenters and similar ones draw at least some of their membership from disaffected young men who turn to those groups as an outlet for their frustration. It also explains Jordan Peterson's popularity, with his "men are orderly, women are chaotic," and "LGBT people don't actually exist."

As for the Japanese schools banning ponytails, that doesn't surprise me. Patriarchal cultures tend to blame women for "exciting" men. When I lived in a country that was almost entirely Muslim, I was told that women were expected to pray at the back of the mosque to avoid exciting men with their rear ends. That same mentality appears in the U.S. when the police ask a rape victim "what were you wearing?"

We have to be careful not to engage in accusing anyone of thoughtcrime. There are many young men who at some point in their development may consider themselves to be incels (or may be thought of as such by others). Most of them grow out of this. Demonizing them by telling them that they're potential terrorist will only feed into their existing feelings of persecution and may paradoxically encourage them to engage in violence they otherwise might not have considered.

Randi1125 · 31-35, F

@LeopoldBloom

With all due respect my friend, I couldn’t disagree more.

Actually, we should be talking about this more openly and calling it what is. Women shouldn’t have to delicately broach the subject for fear it might confuse young boys. It will not incite violence in a young boy who is not capable of terrorism. Yes, terrorism. It doesn’t have to be a mass killing to be considered terrorism.

I mean how much money did the Secret Service spend on this report? Women have been saying this for decades. However, the report is validation... I suppose. 🙄

I mean seriously, where do men get the audacity and entitlement? Coverture?

LeopoldBloom · M

@Randi1125 I don't mean to excuse that kind of thinking. Of course men aren't entitled to have their way with women, and women don't exist for men's pleasure. I suppose a report like this is the first step in admitting that there is a problem. I'm just not sure what the solution is. Several times, I've been in conversations with young men who expressed frustration at not having female attention. I've asked if they've considered dating a disabled girl or a fat girl or one they don't consider attractive, and some of them say no woman is interested in them. So the problem is with them, personally, and not "society." Even a lonely woman who considers herself undesirable is going to be turned off by a man who comes across as desperate, or worse, acts like he's doing her a favor by paying attention to her.

One solution might be to de-stigmatize sex work. If a man is frustrated, he should be able to hire a prostitute. But the guys who need this are also the most resistant to the idea, as if paying a woman for sex is admitting failure. But changing society's attitude toward sex work would definitely help.

Randi1125 · 31-35, F

@LeopoldBloom

pssst... i love reading your comments
this ain't it, my friend

disabled girl or a fat girl or one they don't consider attractive

no, just no

LeopoldBloom · M

@Randi1125 I mentioned that because many of these guys think they’re entitled to date a supermodel. They have an overly high opinion of themselves. So of course when they approach a woman who isn’t a supermodel with the attitude “you should be grateful I’m talking to you,” that’s a turnoff.

I’m basing this on women I’ve talked to and Instagram and TikTok accounts I follow where this comes up.