"It will be over my dead body that I'll have to get a shot."

@GeniUs During an appearance at a Turning Point USA conference, host Charlie Kirk asked Palin for her opinion on vaccine mandates.

Palin argued that she does not need to be vaccinated because she previously had been infected with Covid-19.

"We were led to believe that we wouldn't have to have the shot," Palin said. "Well then they changed their tune and now those of us who have had Covid, they're telling us that even though we've had it and we have natural immunity now that we still have to get a shot."

@RodionRomanovitch It's a fair argument, I can live with that.

@RodionRomanovitch the shot is free,,who in there right mind turn down something that is free,,💉,well there is a few things I dont wont💃,,,,,🐰

@jackrabbit10 So here is a free poison apple. Are you going to eat it because it is free?

@GeniUs It is a poor argument on her part, because having had covid does not convey sufficient protection to prevent reinfection. Having covid followed by vaccination significantly increases immunity against reinfection.

@hippyjoe1955 had a friend named Hippyjim,,I think he ate something like that,but his Dr,dident give it to him oooyell the covit is also free,,,,sure do miss him,🌷,,🐰

@windinhishair If that assessment was beyond reproach, there were no suspected health implications to taking the jab, and she was in the vulnerable person category I would agree. Also if she has had Covid once and it didn't hospitalize her there is a great chance it wouldn't affect her badly again.
Even as I was typing this out I was thinking of more factors that affect a person's decision, it is a complicated equation.

We are all balancing the pros and cons of taking the jab I'm in the UK so healthcare is free, the government wanted everybody to take the jab so as the Health Service was not over powered. As it is providing the jab (and I've just realised this, which is why forums are a good place to discuss) and insisting that everybody be jabbed multiple times has diverted resources from essential services and caused a pressure on the NHS previously unseen.

@GeniUs Given that the vaccine is both safe and effective, and provides additional benefit to persons who have already survived infection, the smart move is to get vaccinated. As you allude to, some people cannot be vaccinated for various reasons. These are people that the rest of us need to protect by vaccinating ourselves and taking precautions to prevent spread. If you read Palin's words in full, she's not just talking about herself but preventing others in her family from being vaccinated, so it isn't an issue of being a vulnerable person in her case. Moreover, she CAN be affected adversely with a second infection, because different variants are out there than there were when she was first affected. It can be a complicated situation for some people, but Palin is not one of them.

@GeniUs I suspect that the impact of resources will be far greater when hospitals are overrun with covid cases than providing sufficient vaccines for people. That's one of the major reasons for getting the vaccination rate up as high as possible. Unfortunately, you're probably going to find out how severe it can be over the next month or two with the omicron variant.

@windinhishair As I understand it, there is no proof that being vaccinated gives you any benefit against Covid, and is unproveable(IMO).
Being vaccinated does not reduce or prevent onward infection of Covid, again it is almost unproveable one way or the other.
Her family, those of an age who can make an educated decision on this should be allowed to make that decision for themselves.
As for the different variants I would treat these as any other cold infection, just because it's a variant of Covid does not make it any more virulent or aggressive.

@windinhishair Hospitals are taking people from essential services, Cancer screening, AIDS treatment, essential operations, to provides services for Covid inoculation this is causing problems now and saving problems for later the next 5 years.

@GeniUs You are misinformed, and the proof of efficacy can be seen in the experience of just about any nation who has vaccinated significant numbers of people. In the US for example, being vaccinated means you are six times less likely to be hospitalized and 12 times less likely to die than if you are unvaccinated. In other words, the vaccines do work to prevent adverse outcomes.

Being vaccinated DOES provide additional antibodies above and beyond those that are generated by the body during a bout with covid, and those additional antibodies DO improve your chances of not being reinfected. Right now the best case scenario to minimize your personal risk if you have had covid is to get vaccinated.

She and her family are of course free to choose whether to receive a life-saving, safe vaccine, or to risk their own lives and those of their family. They are not entitled to risk the lives of others, however, and so their choice may have consequences such as not being able to travel or go to certain places. That is an unavoidable part of their choice.

Covid-19 is not like "any other cold infection". Some variants are much more virulent than others (the delta variant, in particular). Some are much more transmissible, such as the omicron variant, which preliminary information indicates is 70 times more transmissible than the delta variant. So unfortunately you are wrong on both counts about variants not being more aggressive or virulent. They can be one or the other, or both, or neither. Other variants may be less virulent or aggressive. Indeed, it is the increase in transmissibility that causes new variants to predominate. Otherwise, they die out in the population because they aren't being transmitted.

@GeniUs Just wait until the hospitals are full and overflowing with covid patients and all beds are filled. Then you'll wish you had vaccinated more people earlier.

@windinhishair Vaccination levels are at about 80% in the UK and according to the figures some have provided on this board it doesn't make a difference if you are vaccinated or not. I don't mind being wrong, I haven't got an agenda, I'm just looking for the (provable) truth.

@GeniUs The vaccinated with have fewer hospitalizations and deaths with the delta variant than the unvaccinated. There is substantial evidence that the vaccinated can still be infected, but their outcomes are much better with many fewer hospitalizations.

You need to separate the infections from hospitalizations and deaths in your thought process. If you have equal groups of vaccinated and unvaccinated people, the unvaccinated group might have 240 infections that require hospitalization and 48 deaths. The same number of vaccinated people would have 40 infections that require hospitalization and 4 deaths. That's exactly the ratio the US is experiencing right now. And that is the case regardless of the infection rate, even if the same number of vaccinated and unvaccinated people are infected in those groups.

@windinhishair Do you have a link to the figures and does it include how they came up with them? I only ask because I'm am a cynic.

@GeniUs In my country 95% of those hospitalised with covid infection are unvaccinated, and 3% have had a single injection. Of those hospital cases requiring intensive care intervention, [i]all[/i] are unvaccinated

@GeniUs Death rates from covid infection are directly tied to patient age. Vaccination has the effect of lowering age-related risk by [i]25 years.[/i]

@newjaninev2 Do you have a link to the figures and does it include how they came up with them? I only ask because I'm am a cynic.

@GeniUs We (New Zealand) have handled covid well, and certainly better than less cohesive countries such as Spain, US, and Poland (not that it’s difficult to do that!)

We opt for early (and firm) lockdowns, and we have high vaccination rates (fortunately, the malicious nonsense peddled by the pro-covid crowd is rapidly being seen for what it is)

The benefits of that have become apparent:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/05/coronavirus-nz-only-oecd-country-to-have-fewer-deaths-than-expected-in-2020-study.html

I’ll dg out the underlying work on age-related vaccination benefits this afternoon (it’s Monday morning here) and post it here for you

@GeniUs Age-related effects reported in theBritish Medical Journal, and I’ll dig out the age-related vaccine benefits later today:

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3259

@newjaninev2 Not had a chance to look over this at length but I would point out 2 things:
Older people are vulnerable nobody disputes that, vulnerable people should be vaccinated (for peace of mind).
New Zealand is one of the most remote countries on Earth and least densely populated these will have had a large bearing on the spread of Covid.

@GeniUs The data I cited was from an article I read the other day. I can't find it at the moment, but here are a few with similar numbers:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/11/09/texas-unvaccinated-deaths-higher-covid/

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211124/unvaccinated-14-times-more-likely-to-die-from-covid

Actually all of these sources indicate that vaccination is even more protective than the data I cited.

@GeniUs Our remoteness allowed us to defer the arrival of covid, but once covid moved from border quarantine to community cases, we faced the same rates and risks as everybody else, and we still do.

Our continuing success in combatting covid is attributable to excellent leadership (especially in the early stages of the pandemic), universal healthcare, and a cohesive society, within which the pro-covid muppets have struggled to gain any sort of traction.