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Do self-defence laws (US) allow vigilantes to kill with impunity ?

It allows certain people to kill with impunity, and always has. Whether or not they [b]are[/b] viewed as defending themselves depends on how dangerous the victim is perceived. 😳
@bijouxbroussard Trayvon Martin comes to my mind in this.
@NativePortlander1970 Exactly. A law that allows someone to kill based upon arbitrary perceptions is problematic where biases already exist.
@bijouxbroussard Indeed. Americans love to pride the US as the greatest nation on earth, yet it is also the most violent and deadly first world nation on earth, because of the proliferation of guns, and its violent gun history.
As others have pointed out if they use a gun the answer is yes. The US has an alarming cult of the gun that involves bizarre weapon worship that I can only find something vaguely equivalent in feudal Japan with the katana.
fanuc2013 · 51-55, F
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I have a question for you. Hypothetically, you have a gun, and a person is attacking you with a crowbar. What would you do?
@fanuc2013 This is a nonsense hypothetical that is designed to push a very specific narrative. If I traveled across a country specifically looking for a showdown that is something else entirely that doesn't fit the self defense narrative.
BlueVeins · 22-25
Not really, no; self defense laws are an affirmative defense in the US, meaning you have to prove you had reason to believe killing the person was necessary to protecting yourself in that moment. I tend to think it should be legal to kill anyone who breaks into your home without having to prove they were about to kill you, for no reason other than to take the onus off of innocent, traumatized people who were just trying to protect themselves and their families.
SW-User
No. Where I’m at anyway, you have to prove that there was no possible way you could escape. I had an instructor who put it perfectly: “Prison is full of women who couldn’t prove there was no way out.”
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fanuc2013 · 51-55, F
No, they do not. Now if you're referring to the Rittenhouse case, he was chased, struck, knocked down, and one of his assailants admitted to pointing a gun at him. My prediction is he will be exonerated.
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@fanuc2013 Yet that is precisely what they are claiming. i.e. Because Arbery was trying to wrestle the gun from them (Rittenhouse claimed the same) they feared he would turn the gun on them. Of course we have only their 'feelings' to go on , and it neglects the obvious fact that he actually did have very good reason to fear for his life , and wanted to disarm his assailant for that reason alone.
Adstar · 56-60, M
@fanuc2013 In both cases being talked about here the people had to face a court case.. If the US had impunity for these cases then they would have never been charged and would never be facing a court case..

Therefore there is no impunity happening here..
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@Adstar Maybe I should have phrased it better ; 'the expectation of impunity' perhaps.

That's not to say that both cases could yet result in acquittal , in effect granting them impunity for their actions.
SW-User
With a gun. Yes.

Imagine if these idiots were running around and slicing people with machetes instead of assault rifles.
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@SW-User Precisely ! If it wasn't for the deference shown to gun nuts over the years , this ludicrous interpretation of self- defence would never have been entertained.

Edited for clarity.
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
If only.🙄

No, my [b]indoctrinated[/b] friend, that's what you believe because you have been [b]indoctrinated[/b] by left wing propaganda.

Plenty of people have explained it to you politely and succinctly on here, but your confirmation bias, indeed your [b]indoctrination[/b] only allows you to see and believe what you already believe.

I would feel sorry for you if I didn't know you revel in your ignorance and [b]indoctrination[/b].
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
No, not really.

Also,
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@QuixoticSoul That little performance of his was cringeworthy.
Tracos · 51-55, M
@QuixoticSoul which one was that?
windinhishair · 61-69, M
@Tracos the point exactly.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
I don’t like any law based on “feelings “.
Florida’s stand your ground allows you to kill if you “feel” threatened .
Trans bathroom policies are based on feelings too.
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@AthrillatheHunt And this is the thing isn't it ? You can claim to feel threatened when there is absolutely no justification for it. The police already enjoy an almost blanket immunity from prosecution by suggesting they perceived a threat when none was there. Is this type of immunity now to be extended to any idiot brandishing a weapon when things turn nasty. (Precisely because they [b]are brandishing a weapon[/b] in the first place.)
@RodionRomanovitch When I carried a 9mm pistol in Las Vegas it was because it was part of my job, I had armed security credentials. I carry a 9mm now because I am disabled, on oxygen 24/7 because of two bouts of blood clots in my lungs, I am an easy target, being armed gives me better protection than none.
fanuc2013 · 51-55, F
@RodionRomanovitch If you had a gun, and a person was attacking you with a club, what would you do? If your wife or child were being attacked, would you just ask them nicely to please stop?
babieseatcrap · 41-45, M
screw those people better off without em if you had a child would you want that child molesting butt fusker rosenbaum around your little boy?
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@babieseatcrap No, it was in fact a protest rally. The town surely didn’t belong to Rittenhouse—he drove there from someplace else. He was from Antioch, Illinois.
@babieseatcrap And now you’re calling names ?
SW-User
It sure seems that way.
Adstar · 56-60, M
No.. There are plenty of examples of people facing court trials for taking vigilante action..
Stopmakingsense · 56-60, F
Stand your ground laws and self defense laws together with "gun rights" do that.
Iwillwait · M
No. Actually most "Self Defense Laws," in most States are hard to inact as a defense should a death occur. Most people usually end up in jail especially if a gun is involved.
Tracos · 51-55, M
only when capable of provoking an attack or taunting somebody in making stupid threats while hiding under the free speech excuse
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@Tracos I'm not sure that I follow you. Could you explain ?
Tracos · 51-55, M
@RodionRomanovitch my point exactly
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ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
The laws differ from state to state, but in some places it certainly seems that way. :(
fanuc2013 · 51-55, F
@ChipmunkErnie one reason is that our liberal media portrays assailants as victims!
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
Florida’s stand your ground law allows you to kill if you “feel” threatened .
GeistInTheMachine · 31-35, M
Hopefully.

What would go wrong?

Lol.
They do not.
The Jewish people have what is called the Law of the Din Rodef, which allows a person to kill someone that they believe will kill another or violate a woman or child, this is where we get our self defense and the defense of others laws. The Law of the Din Rodef was employed by Yigel Amir when he assassinated Yitzak Rabin in November of 1995, Amir believed that Rabin's peace agreement was going to cost Israeli lives.
@AthrillatheHunt Exactly, through the peace deals Rabin was conducting with the Palestinians. Amir was a law student that identified extreme conservative
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
@NativePortlander1970 While infrequent , Jews kill in the name of Hashem just as Christians and Muslims have/do.
@AthrillatheHunt A prime reason why I am an Atheist, those who kill over myths are quite insane.

 
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