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Was Chauvin found guilty because he was guilty

Or because they didn't want the Country set on fire.
It didn't matter in Cincinnati where police pumped 137 bullets into a car with 2 unarmed people inside. The last shots were from a cop who jumped on the hood of the car and unloaded his sevice revolver into the 2 people inside. Showing off for the dozens of Cops there at the time. No jail time for any of those Cops.
Tim Russell and Mallissa William's were chased by a parade of police cars when their car backfired outside a police station. They were executed. NO CONVICTIONS. Free to go.
ArishMell · 61-69, M
Hearing all this from 3000+ miles ago via news reports, I thought the verdict was more or less inevitable though the trial fit and proper - I did not note the judge's reminder that justice places the onus of proof on the prosecution.

I don't understand the US legal system in detail so not how someone can be found guilty of three different versions of the same crime of unlawful killing.

No-one is suggesting the jury acted improperly but I can't help feeling three verdicts in that way was inevitable.

I understand the wild jubilation outside afterwards, but it was hardly edifying and suggests avenging rather than justice.


So what will be the outcome? Others have pointed out the poor behaviour of so many police officers in America but I would hope, and probably rightly, that they are in a minority of the nation's police forces. Nevertheless a minority that exists because so little action is taken against them.

Why is that? Is it just "racism"? Some States repealed their apartheid laws almost as recently as living memory, but deeply-ingrained social attitudes do not disappear at the thump of the "Repealed" stamp.

Is it very poor selection, training and supervision? I doubt most police recruits enter the service with the idea of cold-bloodedly shooting people as a matter of course. It's certainly lax actions afterwards, with families often just paid off instead by the local or State police-force that has bereaved them.

A result of a society that seems to accept casual domestic abuse and gun violence? I looked at the numbers there. The NRA's membership is a tiny proportion of the population, but has a lot of money for political purposes. About half of the American adult households have at least one registered, and though some have veritable arsenals of battlefield weapons, it also means about half do [i]not[/i] own guns.


Whatever is going wrong in US society as seen by we foreigners, is not unique to the USA. All countries have their divisions and problems, and some countries are notoriously dangerous. Nevertheless, among the developed "Western" nations, the USA seems by far the worst for those, but only America can resolve its own.

If convicting one policeman who lost control, on three separate charges of a single unlawful, achieves anything it might be a huge wake-up call for all Americans, irrespective of race, religion or political affiliations.

One American, I think a journalist, I heard on the news yesterday, said the "whole world" is watching this case.

The "whole world"? Probably... but let's not get carried away. The coverage and reaction is any other country is likely to reflect that nation's attitudes towards the USA and American life; and in many countries, its Governmental line.

Countries like the UK and the other Western European countries are likely to see this as a chance for the USA to put itself right and move on into a less divided, less violent, more civilised society. The USA's opponents, particularly the most hypocritical tyrannies, might merely tell their citizens, "Look how rotten Western so-called democracies are".


This is not a time for jubilation.

A man died needlessly by a wanton act of violence; and though the trial's multi-charge system is rather peculiar, his killer was rightly convicted by due and proper process.

The police officer responsible has destroyed his family's and his own, and dragged the service's name into the gutter.

The murder and trial has also revealed internationally, a festering social sore that goes beyond easy headlines and slogans. George Floyd was by no means the only victim of unlawful killings by police-officers; white as well as black victims though many more of the latter.

It is a time for sober reflection, analysis, discussion far beyond mere slogan-trading; and only by understanding what's going wrong can you at least drastically reduce the risk of any repeats.
Oneofthestormboys · 51-55, M
That was a well written and considered response [@519706,ArishMell]. I can’t disagree with any of your thoughts.
ArishMell · 61-69, M
[@477979,Oneofthestormboys] Thank you!
he was guilty and his defense was a bit of a sick joke.

I mean honestly they suggested that it was car exhaust fumes and then got cross examined and had to admit they didn't even know whether the car was on or off.
[@10406,BetweenKittensandRiots] But the defence has been abysmal for other Cops and they let them walk. From Rodney King on they have said Not Guilty and watched the cities burn.
[@619287,Jwalker] Yeah in spite of the awful defense I was taken off guard that he was found guilty especially on all three charges. He was a cop. I couldn't believe it. The police are basically far too often invulrenable in this country.
[@10406,BetweenKittensandRiots] Mike Brown Hands Up. He was shot 8 or 9 times some in the back the last bullet from close up in the eye but ...
Graylight · 46-50, F
One case has nothing at all to do with the other. Drawing conclusions is a fallacy. Yes, Chauvin was convicted because he was guilty. Incontrovertibly, irrefutably, scientifically and forensically.

The details in the case you mention: [quote]Russell was driving his 1979 light-blue Chevrolet Malibu and Williams was seated in the passenger seat. A plainclothes police officer spotted Russell's car in an area known for drug deals. The officer checked the license plate which uncovered nothing notable. He then tried to pull the car over for a turn signal violation. Russell did not pull over causing a police chase to ensue. As Russell sped past two officers, they believed that they heard shots being fired. As no firearm was found in the vehicle, the sound was most likely caused by the car backfiring.[/quote]

Not an execution, but an unwarranted shooting. The first problem lay with the police. The tried and true tactic of having nothing to stop someone on and making something up has caused more problems than you can imagine. And it happens all the live-ling day. That creates officers who walk up to a vehicle looking for trouble.

The couple led police on a 22-minute chase. Not around the block, not for a mile...for the duration of a TV show. Lots of time in there to consider stopping rather than blowing by other police vehicles. No doubt they thought they were going to end up in jail that night. The police officers probably believed the same thing.

The police actions went too far, no question. Do we need to re-imagining policing? No question. But to imply there was no legal blowback is misleading. In May 2014, one of the officers involved, Michael Brelo, was charged with two counts of voluntary manslaughter, but was acquitted. Five police supervisors were also charged with dereliction of duty, a misdemeanor. Their trial was set on July 27, 2015. The families of Russell and Williams filed a lawsuit against the city of Cleveland, and received a settlement of $3 million in November 2014. On January 26, 2016, it was reported that six Cleveland police officers were fired due to their connection with the car chase.

Maybe a verdict like yesterday's will prevent scenes like the one that took WIlliams and Russell.
[@627992,Graylight] 137 bullets in the car. Last shots by Mike Brelo who jumped on the hood of the car and shot through the windshield into the 2 occupants but he was found Not Guilty because they couldn't determine if the 2 people were already dead or not. Dozens of Police cars can be seen on traffic cameras chasing the car that was backfiring. A perfect excuse to fill the car with bullets. How would any of these Cops ever know the difference between gunfire and a car backfiring? Some of these officers got desk duty as punishment but didn't like that and got the Police Union involved.
Graylight · 46-50, F
[@619287,Jwalker] I'm not saying this wasn't a tragedy and a crime. I'm suggesting that being somehow angry or dissatisfied with Chauvin's conviction while others slip by is misdirected anger.

I think we all acknowledge there needs to be an investigation and reimagining of law enforcement, but this is a start. Take it for what it can be if we let it.
Oneofthestormboys · 51-55, M
I’m from outside the US, but have spent quite a bit of time looking at what goes on there.
Quite honesty, it’s pretty appalling to see how some police officers behave in a country that proudly proclaims to be ‘The land of the free’.
It strikes me that the police there has become a profession of choice for school jocks and bullies who are intent on continuing their dominant behaviour over others, and are given a weapon and the authority to enact this warped personality on the tax paying public.
It seems to me that this was endemic throughout the profession from the bottom up, hence the reluctance to be held accountable.
The gun culture clearly works against it as well.
Such a pity for the lives lost or ruined.
[@477979,Oneofthestormboys] The police get away with murder because they are paid to protect the rich. If the rich were being gunned down by paranoid x highschool jocks the story would be very different. Why don't Police Unions or the Police Retirement Funds pay the multi million dollar settlements paid to families whose family member gets executed by Police?
Oneofthestormboys · 51-55, M
[@619287,Jwalker] Probably because they’re self serving in reality.
annamarie1805 · 31-35, F
I expected them to find him guilty of something, but all three just screams they did it because of the threats of violence and riots.
[@1201790,annamarie1805] Right. He's a cop let him off easy. Last week a Cop murdeted someone he got to quit the force rather than be tried for his sex crimes. Full pension.
[@1201790,annamarie1805] It does feel like they didn't want things to blow up. In the past if it did blow up it was just one more way to arrest Black People. Red States are making protest laws instead. Just arrest Black Protesters.
I personlly think he used excessive force but I don't hold him responsible for just kneeling on his neck. My feeling was that he didn't believe or take floyd seriously when he said he couldn't breathe because kept resisting arrest.
You read the jury was intimidated into the question. I didn't post a thing a out the jury.
Well the jurors found him guilty. [@619287,Jwalker]
[@14748,Zebrawl] And he can go to jail with the other murderers.
Cops should be banned from having guns as they will use them. Weapons of mass destruction are not protected by the second amendment.
independentone · 61-69, M
The hands in his pocket and the bored look on Chauvins face while killing someone is what convicted him.
Graylight · 46-50, F
[@1088262,independentone] His hands weren't in his pockets. But he sure looked bored.
SevIsPamprinYouAlways · 51-55, F
I mean, he’s not wrong:

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