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Comparing conflicts in the USA and Spain. The power of the people

I have posted about Spanish fascism in the past, but it didn’t exactly raise eyebrows like I expected. I don’t know if the situation is difficult to understand without the countless years of context, or if people see me as a crazy radical that spews nonsense. But as America, a country that was once seen as a bastion of everything good in the world, inches closer to total polarization, and further from what it used to be, I urge people to read attentively. I spent a few days chipping away to write this. Be aware of the possibility that this can happen anywhere. You might be partly there already.

The law, or the constitution is useless if there are people that are willing to turn a blind eye. Fascism is not achieved by one person breaking the law and saying “look at me, I’m your new dictator”. It comes into existence when politicians and government officials on various levels of the government have a shared ulterior motive that they want to exploit. (Examples - https://similarworlds.com/6290870-I-Hate-Fascism/3183321-Lets-take-a-look-at-how-the-Spanish-judicial , https://similarworlds.com/18-Politics/3129073-Tomorrow-the-EU-will-either-take-a-stand-for-or )

But this “ulterior motive” can easily be disguised as something else. I’ll give an example for the USA and Spain here.

For example, meritocracy in the United States. It’s easy to say at the finish line of a race that the person who worked the hardest won, but is it really meritocracy if the starting lines were different for each person? If you’re over 60 years old reading this, there were American universities that didn’t even accept black students in your life time. Reparations for slavery is obviously a slippery slope, but to actively suppress a group of people for hundreds of years, make it difficult to get an education, a job, a house for several generations. To do all of that, and then claim that the FIRST generation who doesn’t have to experience active segregation is in just as good of a position as people who have had hundreds of years and wealth and property passed down, is deliberately ignoring history. It’s the modern way of keeping down the people that were historically kept down.

Similarly, Spain today parrots toxic chauvinism and this idea that all Spaniards must be unified with their national identity. Very ironic, considering Spain was created through war and the suppression of other kingdoms and cultures. It’s like taking 1 piece from 20 different puzzles and wondering why they don’t fit to make a pretty picture. [b]Imagine the president of the United States saying “There is no such thing as ‘Native-American’, we are all just American.” It’s obviously not true, there is an extensive Native American history, just like Catalonia. [/b]

These people are desperate to preserve their old ways of life. It’s why they fear the voice of the people so much. It’s why republicans in America are fighting so hard against mail-in voting across the country. They know if everybody has a say, then they have no chance. It’s the same reason why Spain fought so hard against Catalonia’s independence referendum in 2017. Despite a 43% turnout of registered voters (due to the police and national guard forcibly keeping people away from polling stations, and destroying ballot boxes) Catalonia still got more than 2 million votes for independence. [b]Despite the low turnout percentage, 2,044,038 votes for independence is 27% of Catalonia’s total population. For comparison, the UK received 17,410,742 votes for LEAVE during the Brexit Referendum (26% of the UK population) while they didn’t suffer from the police preventing people from voting. [/b]

Speaking from experience, if your country is willing to allow police to beat protesters, use teargas and rubber bullets with complete negligence, while those officers will not see any repercussions, your country is also willing to do much worse against you.

These are quotes from Catalonia’s exiled former President, Carles Puigdemont, who Spain is still attempting to extradite 3 years later.

[quote] This is not an even fight: we are facing a state that will stop at nothing. They’ve said it themselves. Remember what [former Spanish VP] Alfredo Pérez Rubalcaba said: we will pay the price, no matter how high. And they have: just the purchase of a Pegasus spyware license will set you back €250m. Not to mention [the violence on] 1 October 2017. We need to take that into account: our opponent will go to any lengths and won’t flinch at the price tag. We used to be certain about it, but now we have actual records of it: precious information that tells us that the state may indeed be tempted to resort to violence. However, that temptation reveals a weakness, an intellectual laziness that stops them from coming up with a complex solution. And that affords us an advantage.[/quote]

When facing a side that will stop at nothing to get what they want, peace is essential. I think Palestine is a good example of this. Despite existing for even longer than Israel, the quality of life in Palestine today is poor, while Israel is one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world. Waging unwinnable wars and having a serious lack of leadership is the reason for that. Another one from Puigdemont.

[quote] If the only viable path to independence that Spain leaves us is to enter into a conflict, the lessons from 2017 will prove very useful. However, we must abide by our maxim, our ethical commitment: we mustn’t resort to violence. Violence and active resistance are two very different things. Every day we must ask Madrid if they are willing to renounce violence in their attempt to stop Catalan independence, the same way I am willing to do so in order to achieve it.[/quote]

Keep your heads up my American friends. It might get worse before it gets better but you will get through this. Voting is the most powerful tool you have.

Visca Catalunya y visca USA 🇺🇸


I think Americans right now are stuck on the "can't happen here" way of thinking.
NenaRussa · 22-25, F
Imagine what the same people would say if it was a different country being ravaged by virus, political turmoil, police brutality, unemployment, and “riots” as they call them. @PicturesOfABetterTomorrow
@NenaRussa Agreed. Under any other circumstance they would be called a failed state.
luckranger71 · 51-55, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I think plenty of us recognize the issue and a healthy minority of people have seen it for sometime now far predating COVID.

Structurally, the US federal government is less responsive due to the nature of the Senate and the way the House is elected (no proportional representation). So, as is going on now, 35 to 40% of the population holds far more power than their number. And unfortunately that share is by and large willfully ignorant.

The only thing that can shake this in the short term this is the Democrats gaining all three branches of government. But long term the same problems are going to exist absent a constitutional restructuring. I'd agree the US is right now a failed state unless proven otherwise.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
I dont agree with you on Catalan independence. I fully support your right to an independence referendum, though I personally would vote no.

Excellent post though. People forget that Spain was ruled by a military dictatorship as recently as the 1970s. A distatorship that was quite literally in alliance with Hitler when it was formed during the Spanish Civil War.

I'm a George Orwell fan and Ive read some Spanish history. I can definately see some parallels with the 1930s and the present day. 1984 with all the double think and surveilence is more prescient than ever.

Its much less extreme pronounced in my native UK than elsewhere, though we have a huge economic crash looming and creeping authoritarianism.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@NenaRussa Because the first ref wasnt official and turnout was low (due to abstentions and police repression) you would absolutely meed another referendum for a mandate. The police brutality is not on but its also a factor than many Spanish unuonists abstained because the ref was not official.

Unlike the Spanish state and mainstream parties, i support your right to have that. Also, even as a remain voter, Im highly critical of the EU. Im against the single currency and hate what they did to Syriza in Greece and others.

Yes, the EU are hypocrites and are anti democratic when it suits them.

Would Catalan independence be a good thing for its people if it happened? Would it work economically? Would be a social democratic and anti racist state? Thess are the qiestions on which we don't agree.
NenaRussa · 22-25, F
@Burnley123 Getting the right to decide has to happen before any of those questions matter
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@NenaRussa As you know, I agree on that.
IWasCallingYaLarry · 26-30, M
You didn't do any research, did you? The reason people are against mail in voting is because of how easy it can be abused. It has caused voter fraud before because of votes mysteriously disappearing and nobody knowing where they went. That's why I'm gonna vote in person so that I know my vote is actually counted. There have been past elections where both sides have committed voter fraud because of how insecure mail in voting is. Both Democrats and Republicans have done it before. In one of those times I believe 300 votes had went missing all of a sudden. Now Virginia wants to remove voter id from votes. That sounds very illegitimate. So then at that point, you can just put down that you're voting for Mickey Mouse and hand the vote in and it's counted. No matter who wins, nobody is gonna think this election is legit. If Trump wins again, people are gonna whine Russia Russia propaganda nonsense for another 4 years and if Creepy Sleepy Bumbly Joe Biden wins, people are gonna whine and say China. Either way, people are gonna think the election isn't legit. Btw these nutjobs are not protesters. They're not protesting anything at this point. They're rioters and terrorists. Shooting innocent people who don't deserve it and burning down black owned businesses, attacking innocent people of all races, beating a random trans woman, shooting a random dad walking his little daughter, that isn't protesting anything. That's terrorism. These people are terrorists. People who actually did peacefully assemble and protest and were not violent at all, I have respect for them. Go express your first amendment right as much as you want. But threatening innocent people because you wanna be an opportunist? Nah, I'm not defending that. I'm glad that the Portland police now have been deputized so that anybody they arrest now doesn't get let go by the DA. Instead, they now are getting charged by a Federal Attorney. So finally now, the terrorists are being taken care of. Next time you post anything, please just do your research first. That's all I ask.
NenaRussa · 22-25, F
@IWasCallingYaLarry Although America is lacking in many departments, it’s silly to assume they are [i]incapable[/i] of making a working mail-in vote system. Many countries do it. It’s a choice not make it happen.

You tell me to do research but then say 99% objective statements...
yfma53 · 70-79, M
Thank you for your post. Have much to say about this. Possibly another time. I will say this, it's all about Oneness, connection. Different is not division. Perhaps I am being simplistic, but oneness in consciousness is where it must begin.
SAE5W30 · 46-50, M
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Khenpal1 · M
Spain as a whole is too poor and there is no support outside Spain for any region to break out .

 
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