Greta; hero or villain ... ?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7910785/Donald-Trump-arrives-Davos-appearance-Greta-Thunberg-shames-world-leaders.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7910785/Donald-Trump-arrives-Davos-appearance-Greta-Thunberg-shames-world-leaders.html
This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@sunsporter1649
@QuixoticSoul Where do those electric cars get the power to recharge their batteries?
Electricity is fungible so there is no way to tell. But even if you pretend it’s all coming straight from a coal-fired plant, it’s till less detrimental than an ICE.1-25 of 30
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@fairefoutre So enjoy the pollution involved in burning the renewables
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@DukeOfEarle That’s funny, when I look for Stromman’s actual study I find the conclusions to be rather different.
The whole thing is really a note that manufacturing standards matter anyhow, not some strange anti-EV screed you make it out to be.
We find that EVs powered by the present European electricity mix offer a 10% to 24% decrease in global warming potential (GWP) relative to conventional diesel or gasoline vehicles assuming lifetimes of 150,000 km. However, EVs exhibit the potential for significant increases in human toxicity, freshwater eco‐toxicity, freshwater eutrophication, and metal depletion impacts, largely emanating from the vehicle supply chain. Results are sensitive to assumptions regarding electricity source, use phase energy consumption, vehicle lifetime, and battery replacement schedules. Because production impacts are more significant for EVs than conventional vehicles, assuming a vehicle lifetime of 200,000 km exaggerates the GWP benefits of EVs to 27% to 29% relative to gasoline vehicles or 17% to 20% relative to diesel. An assumption of 100,000 km decreases the benefit of EVs to 9% to 14% with respect to gasoline vehicles and results in impacts indistinguishable from those of a diesel vehicle. Improving the environmental profile of EVs requires engagement around reducing vehicle production supply chain impacts and promoting clean electricity sources in decision making regarding electricity infrastructure.
Note that the lifecycle benefits of EVs only go up with mileage, and 150k km is an extremely pessimistic number for vehicles with such simplified drivetrains.The whole thing is really a note that manufacturing standards matter anyhow, not some strange anti-EV screed you make it out to be.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@sunsporter1649 Fuck you’re dumb sportster smh. So clueless.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@QuixoticSoul Whoops, forgot, electricity comes magically from a hole in the wall
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@sunsporter1649 You forgot that you’re fucking retarded, that you know jack shit about any of this, and are too lazy to read any of the relevant materials.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@QuixoticSoul You obviously do not live within 300 miles of a power generating site
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@sunsporter1649 You think you’re making sense, but actually you’re a dumbass and are pitifully wrong.
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@sunsporter1649 I can, but you’re literally too stupid to read the relevant materials.
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@pagandad Who did I call a liar?
Your career is orthogonal to this topic, and you presented no relevant facts.
Your career is orthogonal to this topic, and you presented no relevant facts.
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@pagandad I ignore it, because it's a hilarious strawman - nobody said that electric cars operate with 100% efficiency at any point in the chain of their operation. Efficiency of the sort you're talking about isn't even really what the conversation is about.
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
Roadsterrider · 56-60, M
@QuixoticSoul My question about electric cars is where will they be disposed of? 800 to 1500 pounds of batteries times however many millions of cars there are out there and batteries with a life span of 8 years or 100,000 miles. Ten years after mass production begins, we will need a place to dispose of the hazardous material generated by these cars, 1000 at a time.
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@Roadsterrider Don't upset him with facts, it irritates them
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@pagandad If you notice, this is really a fragment of a convo, tbh I didn't realize you were talking about that specific scenario.
Regardless, of course someone has gone and done the math. The term is "well to wheel" emissions, the only type of efficiency you didn't talk about.
Regardless, of course someone has gone and done the math. The term is "well to wheel" emissions, the only type of efficiency you didn't talk about.
Taking that same 1,000-mile road trip in an electric vehicle that needs 33 kilowatt-hours of energy to travel 100 miles, like a Tesla Model S, would require about 286 pounds (130 kilograms) of coal to be burned at the local power plant. Modern coal plants only convert about 35 percent of the fuel’s energy into electricity, and about 10 percent of that electricity could be lost as it travels along power lines.
Even with all those losses, the electric vehicle road trip is still better for the climate than driving a gasoline-powered car. Burning that much coal would release about 310 kilograms of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, compared with 350 kilograms by the 40 gallons of gasoline. Even though coal tends to emit more pollutants than oil for the amount of energy it generates, the efficiency of the electric vehicle, which recharges its battery with every brake, more than makes up the difference.
Even with all those losses, the electric vehicle road trip is still better for the climate than driving a gasoline-powered car. Burning that much coal would release about 310 kilograms of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, compared with 350 kilograms by the 40 gallons of gasoline. Even though coal tends to emit more pollutants than oil for the amount of energy it generates, the efficiency of the electric vehicle, which recharges its battery with every brake, more than makes up the difference.
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
sunsporter1649 · 70-79, M
@QuixoticSoul But your sway-backed mule will do even better
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@sunsporter1649 You're welcome to one of those.
@pagandad Sure. But then again, energy doesn't just come from coal plants in most places, and the balance is only shifting in the right direction. That's clearly the edge case, anyhow.
@Roadsterrider The current lifespan of a Tesla battery-pack is between 300-500k miles. Then Tesla will recycle it.
@pagandad Sure. But then again, energy doesn't just come from coal plants in most places, and the balance is only shifting in the right direction. That's clearly the edge case, anyhow.
@Roadsterrider The current lifespan of a Tesla battery-pack is between 300-500k miles. Then Tesla will recycle it.
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@pagandad 25 mpg is the mpg of an average car, it seems. Anyway, a vehicle of a Model S's performance level would likely be around there anyway, luxury performance sedans usually hover in that ballpark.
Most places aren't just coal either - and most are heading in the right direction. We're discussing the very outside edge case here that's only getting edgier.
Most places aren't just coal either - and most are heading in the right direction. We're discussing the very outside edge case here that's only getting edgier.
1-25 of 30