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SW-User
I don't think you're gonna find a lot of decent answers, considering most of SW is white. People don't want to admit that they have it better than others. I don't know how to say this in English, because there isn't a translation that isn't awkward, but people make themselves look like they've suffered a lot to try to make it seem that white privilege isn't a thing. White privilege isn't being rich, or feeling like things are better now and we get along. It doesn't have anything to do with getting along with people that are non-white. It's a systematic issue in a lot of Western countries because its creation was by the white man for the white man.
The system was created to give them an advantage, which is the entire problem. You can find countless studies that will tell you that yeah, White people have more opportunities, White people typically have better living conditions, White people typically have higher paying jobs. Not because they're bad people or because their race makes them better, but because the system was created for their upward mobility.
You can't tell me that the typical White man does not have it better than the typical Black man, because that would be a lie. You can't tell me that the typical White man has it worse than the typical Brown man, because that would be a lie.
This entire time, non-whites have been fighting to be treated as human beings.
The reason people can't see that white privilege isn't a thing is because they look at it with their White frame of mind. They see things that they have already, and don't see that as a privilege, they see that as a normality. It isn't an advantage in any way to them because they've had it their entire lives.
When they see efforts to combat this by fighting for minorities, they see it as a threat to their power. They don't wonder why they have that power in the first place.
I live in the U.S., and this country was built on creating advantages for Whites over non-Whites.
A white man can be poor, but it isn't because he's white.
A black man can be poor, and it can very well be because his ancestors were stripped of the opportunity to form roots here. To buy land, to create businesses, to be put in positions of authority. And although that can happen now, there's still an imbalance.
There are hundreds of situations where White people in some way have the advantage, and non-Whites have the disadvantage.
The police will give the White man the benefit of the doubt. White people get to learn about their history in school because it is seen as important. White people get to see themselves represented in media, in office, everywhere.
On the news, you still see
"___ was the first black woman to do ____."
White people don't have to deal with dumb stereotypes every day. That you're dirty, and lazy, and stupid. That you're predisposed to be violent and uneducated because it's in your genes, when that's not true.
You can say "Oh, I don't see colour." When that isn't even the problem. All people want is for you to see their colour and accept them, not pretend that their colour and history is invisible to you.
It's a privilege to think race isn't important. It's a privilege to not worry about whether or not your 14 year old child could be shot in the street because there's so much hate for black people. It's a privilege to not have people tell you to go back to your country when you were literally born here. It's a privilege to have the opportunity to accumulate wealth because you don't have to struggle every day to put food on the table for your family. White people live in better neighbourhoods because their parents can afford it.
White people can get into better universities because their parents could afford to get them extra tutoring, pay for their tuition to a prep school, and get piano lessons from the ages of 4-18.
You can honestly find so many examples, and it's ridiculous for people to be blind to it because they get defensive.
The system was created to give them an advantage, which is the entire problem. You can find countless studies that will tell you that yeah, White people have more opportunities, White people typically have better living conditions, White people typically have higher paying jobs. Not because they're bad people or because their race makes them better, but because the system was created for their upward mobility.
You can't tell me that the typical White man does not have it better than the typical Black man, because that would be a lie. You can't tell me that the typical White man has it worse than the typical Brown man, because that would be a lie.
This entire time, non-whites have been fighting to be treated as human beings.
The reason people can't see that white privilege isn't a thing is because they look at it with their White frame of mind. They see things that they have already, and don't see that as a privilege, they see that as a normality. It isn't an advantage in any way to them because they've had it their entire lives.
When they see efforts to combat this by fighting for minorities, they see it as a threat to their power. They don't wonder why they have that power in the first place.
I live in the U.S., and this country was built on creating advantages for Whites over non-Whites.
A white man can be poor, but it isn't because he's white.
A black man can be poor, and it can very well be because his ancestors were stripped of the opportunity to form roots here. To buy land, to create businesses, to be put in positions of authority. And although that can happen now, there's still an imbalance.
There are hundreds of situations where White people in some way have the advantage, and non-Whites have the disadvantage.
The police will give the White man the benefit of the doubt. White people get to learn about their history in school because it is seen as important. White people get to see themselves represented in media, in office, everywhere.
On the news, you still see
"___ was the first black woman to do ____."
White people don't have to deal with dumb stereotypes every day. That you're dirty, and lazy, and stupid. That you're predisposed to be violent and uneducated because it's in your genes, when that's not true.
You can say "Oh, I don't see colour." When that isn't even the problem. All people want is for you to see their colour and accept them, not pretend that their colour and history is invisible to you.
It's a privilege to think race isn't important. It's a privilege to not worry about whether or not your 14 year old child could be shot in the street because there's so much hate for black people. It's a privilege to not have people tell you to go back to your country when you were literally born here. It's a privilege to have the opportunity to accumulate wealth because you don't have to struggle every day to put food on the table for your family. White people live in better neighbourhoods because their parents can afford it.
White people can get into better universities because their parents could afford to get them extra tutoring, pay for their tuition to a prep school, and get piano lessons from the ages of 4-18.
You can honestly find so many examples, and it's ridiculous for people to be blind to it because they get defensive.
latinbutterfly · F
Gouzi · 26-30, M
@SW-User 🙄
SW-User
@Gouzi Ya mad? Lol
Gouzi · 26-30, M
@SW-User “ It's a systematic issue in a lot of Western countries because its creation was by the white man for the white man.”
I don't think you understand every legal system in western countries to claim that they were all made with the purpose of benefiting white men.
You can't use America as a way to refer to all western countries with their own unique history and law.
For example, English law is different from French Law. In fact, the aim of the French system after the revolution was to treat all equally.
That it doesn't in practice doesn't mean that the French law aims at benefiting white men. Nor does it necessarily mean that its because of racism.
& its ironic if you're Chinese, as China is entirely about benefiting Chinese people and the powerful chinese people.
I'm not angry. i'm bored by your shallow opinion.
I don't think you understand every legal system in western countries to claim that they were all made with the purpose of benefiting white men.
You can't use America as a way to refer to all western countries with their own unique history and law.
For example, English law is different from French Law. In fact, the aim of the French system after the revolution was to treat all equally.
That it doesn't in practice doesn't mean that the French law aims at benefiting white men. Nor does it necessarily mean that its because of racism.
& its ironic if you're Chinese, as China is entirely about benefiting Chinese people and the powerful chinese people.
I'm not angry. i'm bored by your shallow opinion.
This message was deleted by its author.
SW-User
@Gouzi That's why I said "In a lot of western countries", bruh.
And you're really bringing up French law when France has it's own history of slavery. The aim of the French system might be to treat people equally, but it's different than reality. Just like in the U.S., the intent is to treat people equally, but that doesn't mean equality is guaranteed. That doesn't mean people have let go of their attitudes. That doesn't mean that everything is ok.
And even if I'm Chinese, I recognise that a lot of Chinese people are assholes and are currently committing genocide. I'm not going to have any sort of loyalty while that is happening. I might be Chinese racially, but that doesn't mean that I share values with a country that I've only ever visited.
And you're really bringing up French law when France has it's own history of slavery. The aim of the French system might be to treat people equally, but it's different than reality. Just like in the U.S., the intent is to treat people equally, but that doesn't mean equality is guaranteed. That doesn't mean people have let go of their attitudes. That doesn't mean that everything is ok.
And even if I'm Chinese, I recognise that a lot of Chinese people are assholes and are currently committing genocide. I'm not going to have any sort of loyalty while that is happening. I might be Chinese racially, but that doesn't mean that I share values with a country that I've only ever visited.
Abrienda · 26-30, F
@SW-User So...white SW members are not going to give "decent" answers, is that right? Because they are "white", yes? Or does that in your mind just mean the are not going to give you answers you agree with which is your definition of "decent"?
You know what mine is? Not judging how people will react whom I never met because of their skin color. That's because unlike you I am not a racist which by your opening sentence you prove to the world and all those "indecent white SW members" you clearly are.
Even a casual search would have educated you on the subject -
The LA riots were a rude awakening for Korean-Americans - CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/us/la-riots-korean-americans
02/08/38 · The LA riots were a rude awakening for Korean-Americans. ... Police left Los Angeles' Koreatown to burn during the 1992 riots ... majority-black neighborhoods like South …
Author: Kyung Lah, CNN
Just a hint- the rioters attacking the Korean community were not white.
You know what mine is? Not judging how people will react whom I never met because of their skin color. That's because unlike you I am not a racist which by your opening sentence you prove to the world and all those "indecent white SW members" you clearly are.
Even a casual search would have educated you on the subject -
The LA riots were a rude awakening for Korean-Americans - CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/us/la-riots-korean-americans
02/08/38 · The LA riots were a rude awakening for Korean-Americans. ... Police left Los Angeles' Koreatown to burn during the 1992 riots ... majority-black neighborhoods like South …
Author: Kyung Lah, CNN
Just a hint- the rioters attacking the Korean community were not white.
Gouzi · 26-30, M
@SW-User 我就知道！
That there was slavery in the past isn't evidence that there is a huge white privilege issue now.
Its called the genetic fallacy. Even if something has an immoral origin, it doesn't make it immoral now.
& I said that the reality isn't close to the ideal. However, that doesn't mean its intentional or due to racism. I think its just due to human nature.
That there was slavery in the past isn't evidence that there is a huge white privilege issue now.
Its called the genetic fallacy. Even if something has an immoral origin, it doesn't make it immoral now.
& I said that the reality isn't close to the ideal. However, that doesn't mean its intentional or due to racism. I think its just due to human nature.
SW-User
@Abrienda The reason they're probably going to be dumb answers is because white privilege is something that white people don't really need to think about. Chances are, white people will get defensive about it, when it's not even something that you're doing wrong. It's an issue because white privilege happens within systems created to benefit white people over others. And even when you enact laws to curb racism, it doesn't just go away.
White people have higher academic attainment. They own homes, have homes, and many are able to live in nicer neighbourhoods in comparison to people of other backgrounds. White people don't disproportionately experience violence or poverty like people from other backgrounds.
White Privilege doesn't mean that you're White and you therefore have everything handed to you. It means that a large amount of white people are born into specific groups with advantages. White people tend to have higher levels of education, which means that you'll probably be born into a family with a high school education at minimum. That means that you can help your kids with their homework, communicate with others, have a basic understanding the law, and how to access resources if you don't have them.
White people also have more money and free time because they have higher paying jobs, probably because they've been educated into those jobs. But even if you look at two people with relatively similar acheivments and experiences, you'll find that white people get almost 40% more callbacks from employers than African Americans and around 20% more than white people.
You'll also find that there are racial disparities even when non-whites submit mortgage applications. There are honestly countless instances where people that aren't white are at disadvantages.
The way I look at it, it isn't about wanting to take away opportunities and "privilege" from white people. It's about non-whites wanting the basic treatment that whites receive, which I don't think is too much to ask for. The thing with using the term "White privilege" is that people think it means that you're trying to belittle their accomplishments, when white privilege just means that there are disadvantages to being Black, Hispanic/Latinx, Asian, whatever, and that it's something that we need to acknowledge.
White people have higher academic attainment. They own homes, have homes, and many are able to live in nicer neighbourhoods in comparison to people of other backgrounds. White people don't disproportionately experience violence or poverty like people from other backgrounds.
White Privilege doesn't mean that you're White and you therefore have everything handed to you. It means that a large amount of white people are born into specific groups with advantages. White people tend to have higher levels of education, which means that you'll probably be born into a family with a high school education at minimum. That means that you can help your kids with their homework, communicate with others, have a basic understanding the law, and how to access resources if you don't have them.
White people also have more money and free time because they have higher paying jobs, probably because they've been educated into those jobs. But even if you look at two people with relatively similar acheivments and experiences, you'll find that white people get almost 40% more callbacks from employers than African Americans and around 20% more than white people.
You'll also find that there are racial disparities even when non-whites submit mortgage applications. There are honestly countless instances where people that aren't white are at disadvantages.
The way I look at it, it isn't about wanting to take away opportunities and "privilege" from white people. It's about non-whites wanting the basic treatment that whites receive, which I don't think is too much to ask for. The thing with using the term "White privilege" is that people think it means that you're trying to belittle their accomplishments, when white privilege just means that there are disadvantages to being Black, Hispanic/Latinx, Asian, whatever, and that it's something that we need to acknowledge.
Gouzi · 26-30, M
@SW-User why did you ignore my criticisms of this narrative you presented?
SW-User
@Gouzi
1. That there was slavery in the past doesn't mean that there's an issue now, sure. But there still exist attitudes that harm people that aren't white. Even if you use France as an example, there aren't really any reliable ways to find out data, since they don't collect information on race. You can really only judge on the experiences of minorities in france and french news articles, which do describe violence directed at minorities, and the discrimination of minorities in France.
Although I can go into more detail from the perspectives of the United States and Australia, since those are places that I've actually lived and am familiar with.
2. I also didn't say that White privilege is intentional, I said it's a systematic issue in a lot of Western countries, which it is, because the political system within that country was created to benefit White people and disregard other groups.
1. That there was slavery in the past doesn't mean that there's an issue now, sure. But there still exist attitudes that harm people that aren't white. Even if you use France as an example, there aren't really any reliable ways to find out data, since they don't collect information on race. You can really only judge on the experiences of minorities in france and french news articles, which do describe violence directed at minorities, and the discrimination of minorities in France.
Although I can go into more detail from the perspectives of the United States and Australia, since those are places that I've actually lived and am familiar with.
2. I also didn't say that White privilege is intentional, I said it's a systematic issue in a lot of Western countries, which it is, because the political system within that country was created to benefit White people and disregard other groups.
SW-User
@Abrienda Mind explaining what a riot 25 years ago has anything to do with systematic advantages white people have today? Maybe I'm just not picking up on what you're trying to show me, so I invite you to explain.
Gouzi · 26-30, M
@SW-User
Even if you use France as an example, there aren't really any reliable ways to find out data, since they don't collect information on race.
Then how do you know all this is true? & Just beacuse i experience racism just mean that its actually racist. I can be wrong about my experiences.
Further, how do they know that experience is reflective of a problem with the SYSTEM of the country. System means laws, right? As laws we can refer to and find their problems. If its systematic, we can find the flaw in the system to correct it. What part of the system disregards other groups?
If you have evidence of inequalities, what is the systematic cause of those inequalities? White privilege doesn't refer to any specific systematic fault.
Or is their experience just indicative of a racial tension that is just a part of human nature. That is not because of white vs whatever race... but just because people are human.
Even if you use France as an example, there aren't really any reliable ways to find out data, since they don't collect information on race.
Then how do you know all this is true? & Just beacuse i experience racism just mean that its actually racist. I can be wrong about my experiences.
Further, how do they know that experience is reflective of a problem with the SYSTEM of the country. System means laws, right? As laws we can refer to and find their problems. If its systematic, we can find the flaw in the system to correct it. What part of the system disregards other groups?
If you have evidence of inequalities, what is the systematic cause of those inequalities? White privilege doesn't refer to any specific systematic fault.
Or is their experience just indicative of a racial tension that is just a part of human nature. That is not because of white vs whatever race... but just because people are human.
Abrienda · 26-30, F
@SW-User Oh I SEE! Unlike YOUR brilliant answer? Your inability to even realize your "explanation" is itself racist shows that with logic like yours you belong in a Kafka novel or some Orwellian future. You are like the 9/11 Truthers who say anyone who disagrees with them does because they themselves are part of the conspiracy they believe in. Your argument is circular and childish
I know more about REAL, ACTUAL racism than you will ever know, being yourself from a nation that practices racism as an official policy. Trust me...I know Asian racists when I hear/read them, or can racists OF ANY COLOR be argued with.
I pity you.
I know more about REAL, ACTUAL racism than you will ever know, being yourself from a nation that practices racism as an official policy. Trust me...I know Asian racists when I hear/read them, or can racists OF ANY COLOR be argued with.
I pity you.
Spoiledbrat · F
SW-User
@Gouzi Then how do you know all this is true? & Just beacuse i experience racism just mean that its actually racist. I can be wrong about my experiences.
How do I know all what is true? Elaborate.
And yes, just because you think you experience racism doesn't mean that was the intent of the other person, but that doesn't make the bias, prejudice, or antaganism disappear, which is the racism itself. It doesn't have to be intentional.
Further, how do they know that experience is reflective of a problem with the SYSTEM of the country. System means laws, right? As laws we can refer to and find their problems. If its systematic, we can find the flaw in the system to correct it. What part of the system disregards other groups?
It could be reflective of a problem within the system of a country. System can mean laws, but it also means who has politival power, and who is in a position of authority. You'll find that people in office don't always reflect the actual demographics of the population they represent. The majority of them are white males, which, you know, would make sense if it wasn't 30% of the U.S. population in 65% of those positions.
If you have evidence of inequalities, what is the systematic cause of those inequalities? White privilege doesn't refer to any specific systematic fault.
I've previously mentioned some inequalities. As for the systematic cause of those inequalities, look at my answer above. You'll find your reason. It's because people tend to look out for people within their group. People with political influence don't always fight for people that don't have the same background they do.
Or is their experience just indicative of a racial tension that is just a part of human nature. That is not because of white vs whatever race... but just because people are human.
It probably is indicative of racial tension that is part of human nature. But there's a difference between being born with a bias towards your own people, and dying with that bias without working to acknowledge it.
How do I know all what is true? Elaborate.
And yes, just because you think you experience racism doesn't mean that was the intent of the other person, but that doesn't make the bias, prejudice, or antaganism disappear, which is the racism itself. It doesn't have to be intentional.
Further, how do they know that experience is reflective of a problem with the SYSTEM of the country. System means laws, right? As laws we can refer to and find their problems. If its systematic, we can find the flaw in the system to correct it. What part of the system disregards other groups?
It could be reflective of a problem within the system of a country. System can mean laws, but it also means who has politival power, and who is in a position of authority. You'll find that people in office don't always reflect the actual demographics of the population they represent. The majority of them are white males, which, you know, would make sense if it wasn't 30% of the U.S. population in 65% of those positions.
If you have evidence of inequalities, what is the systematic cause of those inequalities? White privilege doesn't refer to any specific systematic fault.
I've previously mentioned some inequalities. As for the systematic cause of those inequalities, look at my answer above. You'll find your reason. It's because people tend to look out for people within their group. People with political influence don't always fight for people that don't have the same background they do.
Or is their experience just indicative of a racial tension that is just a part of human nature. That is not because of white vs whatever race... but just because people are human.
It probably is indicative of racial tension that is part of human nature. But there's a difference between being born with a bias towards your own people, and dying with that bias without working to acknowledge it.
SW-User
@Abrienda ...😬
SW-User
@Spoiledbrat I'm just trying to word it gently. White people can have problems. There are White people that are born poor, and that suffer massively. Just like people that aren't white are born poor and suffer, too. I don't like the term "white privilege" because it makes people defensive. It's hard to see "privilege" in your situation when you've been struggling yout whole life and when you've lived a life of hardship. It can feel like an attack that questions your achievements.
The problem isn't that White people have benefits in society. It's that others don't have those benefits, if that makes sense. I'd like to live in a place where a black mother doesn't have to worry like crazy about her son getting shot on his way home, or where a Mexican girl from a poor neighbourhood can dream about getting into an Ivy league without being discouraged by the fact that 50% of students at Princeton are white, and only 7% are Hispanic.
Unfortunately, people still have negative opinions of people that aren't White, and that's a product of history, not of any group of people in particular. I don't think saying "White Privilege" is meant to blame people, but it's meant to describe a disadvantage someone else has because they aren't white and aren't as likely to have certain opportunities.
The problem isn't that White people have benefits in society. It's that others don't have those benefits, if that makes sense. I'd like to live in a place where a black mother doesn't have to worry like crazy about her son getting shot on his way home, or where a Mexican girl from a poor neighbourhood can dream about getting into an Ivy league without being discouraged by the fact that 50% of students at Princeton are white, and only 7% are Hispanic.
Unfortunately, people still have negative opinions of people that aren't White, and that's a product of history, not of any group of people in particular. I don't think saying "White Privilege" is meant to blame people, but it's meant to describe a disadvantage someone else has because they aren't white and aren't as likely to have certain opportunities.