How can the Greens win more hearts and minds of the people?

@beckyromero I wonder how many of the climate doom sayers realize that plastic comes from the petro-chemical industry. We may be able to come up with an electric mode of transportation given enough time. What are we going to replace plastic with though.

@beckyromero Yeah, 'cause that's totally what the GND says. 🙄

@Roadsterrider For packaged beverages, plastic could (and really should) be replaced with glass and aluminum. Not only are those two materials wholey independent of the fossil fuel industry, but they also recycle better, preventing massive pollution in landfills.

For bags, plastic can be replaced with paper bags and reusable bags. Ideally, cutting down on plastic consumption would result in a reduction in throwaway culture. For construction purposes, plastic could largely be replaced by wood siding, metallic supports, and metal pipes.

Of course, we don't have to cut out plastic all the way. We can still produce the stuff without actually burning fossil fuels. We could just have a smaller petrochemical industry dedicated to synthesizing these useful materials.

@BlueVeins
Just remember that the average glass bottle weighs about 10 TIMES as much as the average plastic bottle.

According to a report by the BBC:


Plastic wrapping for food also increase shelf life and help reduce food waste.


Get ready for higher food prices if governments start requiring plastic to be eliminated:


I like to recycle.

I would encourage governments to pass laws making it easier to recycle.

And instead of passing laws requiring deposits to punish consumers for not recycling, let's reward consumers who do recycle.

Bring 20 empty cans or plastic bottles from pop or water to a recycling center, get a free lottery ticket.

@beckyromero As of 2015, only 9% of plastic actually gets recycled, and the rest either gets incinerated or landfilled. The real solution is using less disposable bottles and creating more efficient transportation solutions. And yes, obviously, some plastic is still important to have around. But we could greatly reduce consumption by taking simple steps in our day-to-day lives.

@BlueVeins
Such as?

@beckyromero For one thing, we can incorporate electric motors into more of our vehicles, which are known to be far more energy efficient (and quieter, too!). We can cut down on traffic with alternative commuting solutions and incorporate more lightweight materials. Really, it's insane how much untapped potential we have here.

@BlueVeins

Don't you think that if the trucking industry could save money by having electric-powered 18 wheelers they'd have done so by now?

All that electricity being produced! Hmmmm. When was the last power plant built to go online in the United States? I think Bush was president at the time. And I don't mean "W".

@beckyromero They actually have started doing exactly what you're saying. It's just kind of a slow process because

A: trucks last a pretty long time

B: the factories that build gas-powered trucks last a pretty long time, and

C: companies don't bear the full costs of the greenhouse emissions they produce.


First of all, you could literally take the fuel you would've otherwise pumped into your car, feed it into a generator, use that generator to charge your battery, and still have a dickload of gas left over for next time. Not that you should do that or anything, because that would be completely fucking stupid as opposed to other sources. Second of all, electricity production has been declining due to decreased demand, which is itself caused by more efficient electronics and machinery and shit. If you want more electricity, you'll get more electrity. It's not like we're running a shortage or anything. ☀️

@BlueVeins About 80% of the power produced in the US comes from fossil fuel. It would take decades to replace those plants with nuclear plants. Renewable power would be good if the technology was there. I drive all over the country and the amount of land that has been clear cut, forests destroyed to put up turbines is staggering to me. Getting out of the mountains and into flat land out further west, driving along and seeing acres and acres clear cut to place solar panels, these monstrosities have been placed all over the place and don't produce the power of 1 coal or gas fired plant. Not to mention they are made of tons of plastic that comes from the petro chemical industry. I am all for renewables if there was a way to do it logically. Right now, there isn't. If the use of electricity is declining, why do we see brown out or black outs in metropolitan areas? Solar panels average cost per watt is $3.00, the average house is around 1000 to 1400 watts, that means you have somewhere between $30K and $42K invested in solar panels then you have to install them, purchase and install wiring, switching panels, batteries, etc., let's add $60K to already high housing prices while there are homeless people on the streets and 30 year olds living in their parents basements because they can't afford a house.

@Roadsterrider First of all, over 99% of combustion engines run off of fossil fuel in the US, and they do it less efficiently.


Solar power currently costs less than coal and natural gas, which were priced at $50, $102, and $60 respectively per megawatthour in 2017. That's according to Business insider. The only one that really undercuts it is wind power, at $45/megawatt hour. But I'll agree, wind turbines have their own issues from speedy degredation to danger to wildlife.

https://www.businessinsider.com/solar-power-cost-decrease-2018-5/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/06/04/climate-change-coal-now-more-expensive-than-wind-solar-energy/1277637001/

I'm sure you've done your math on the subject, but renewable tech is advancing very quickly and you may want to refresh yourself on the issue.