Is Brexit a good thing?
Dow my SW friends across the pond....is Brexit a good thing for you or is this bad? Your perspective is more valuable than what we see in the media.
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Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
It's a good thing in terms of sovereignty of your own country.
If you're in the EU you have to abide by a set of laws that don't always favour your nation.
You, as a nation, only get one vote. So it's often the way that others vote against your own interests in favour of their own.
As you can imagine if you have 27 different countries it's kinda hard to get political decisions that don't have quite an impact on how you live your life; way you work; run your business; import and export; secure your borders etc. And that annoys many in the UK.
Some time ago it became clear that both France and Germany intended to invest heavily in 'the European ideal.'
That of keeping all member states together; allowing freedom of movement from one member country to another for work or pleasure; a single currency to allow a standardizing of tax levels across all member states. A centralized bank based on the strongest economies within the union. etc.
All sounds fairly ideal until you take into account British/German history.
Twice in the last 100+ years Britain has gone to war with Germany for 'wanting to invade other nations and rule them'.
Those decisions cost lots of British and Allied lives. To say nothing of the massive debt Britain accrude in terms of money spent and borrowed in order to fight them. Largely without European nations help.
For example,rationing of food; oil; petrol.....everything ! began in Britain in 1939 and didn't end until 1954 !
An entire nation lived in poverty for that length of time !
And we WON the war !
Other European nations reluctance to fight or even capitulate altogether has meant there has been a degree of mistrust,politically, ever since.
The other thing which is annoying to many is the fact that British political history has the annoying habit of being so out of tune or understanding with what this 'union of many states'is actually for.
All the other nations have their Nationalized industries which they protect fiercely !
They get dispensation or grants or tax breaks to shore-up their protected industries.
Britain, under Margaret Thatcher, SOLD all of ours ! So by the time it became clear what Germany and France's 'plan' was, it was already too late in terms of protecting British industry from European imports !
Single biggest screw-up in British industrial/political history !
A mistake no other nation has made since !
There is such a mistrust of British political parties since Thatcher, that just about everybody here is sick of any politician not willing to put their constituencies first.
Hence all the current crap in Parliament because THEY don't WANT Brexit !
If you're in the EU you have to abide by a set of laws that don't always favour your nation.
You, as a nation, only get one vote. So it's often the way that others vote against your own interests in favour of their own.
As you can imagine if you have 27 different countries it's kinda hard to get political decisions that don't have quite an impact on how you live your life; way you work; run your business; import and export; secure your borders etc. And that annoys many in the UK.
Some time ago it became clear that both France and Germany intended to invest heavily in 'the European ideal.'
That of keeping all member states together; allowing freedom of movement from one member country to another for work or pleasure; a single currency to allow a standardizing of tax levels across all member states. A centralized bank based on the strongest economies within the union. etc.
All sounds fairly ideal until you take into account British/German history.
Twice in the last 100+ years Britain has gone to war with Germany for 'wanting to invade other nations and rule them'.
Those decisions cost lots of British and Allied lives. To say nothing of the massive debt Britain accrude in terms of money spent and borrowed in order to fight them. Largely without European nations help.
For example,rationing of food; oil; petrol.....everything ! began in Britain in 1939 and didn't end until 1954 !
An entire nation lived in poverty for that length of time !
And we WON the war !
Other European nations reluctance to fight or even capitulate altogether has meant there has been a degree of mistrust,politically, ever since.
The other thing which is annoying to many is the fact that British political history has the annoying habit of being so out of tune or understanding with what this 'union of many states'is actually for.
All the other nations have their Nationalized industries which they protect fiercely !
They get dispensation or grants or tax breaks to shore-up their protected industries.
Britain, under Margaret Thatcher, SOLD all of ours ! So by the time it became clear what Germany and France's 'plan' was, it was already too late in terms of protecting British industry from European imports !
Single biggest screw-up in British industrial/political history !
A mistake no other nation has made since !
There is such a mistrust of British political parties since Thatcher, that just about everybody here is sick of any politician not willing to put their constituencies first.
Hence all the current crap in Parliament because THEY don't WANT Brexit !
Gameknot · 56-60, M
That was pretty good. Thank you.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Picklebobble2 [quote]All sounds fairly ideal until you take into account British/German history.
Twice in the last 100+ years Britain has gone to war with Germany for 'wanting to invade other nations and rule them'.
Those decisions cost lots of British and Allied lives. To say nothing of the massive debt Britain accrude in terms of money spent and borrowed in order to fight them. Largely without European nations help.
For example,rationing of food; oil; petrol.....everything ! began in Britain in 1939 and didn't end until 1954 !
An entire nation lived in poverty for that length of time !
And we WON the war ! [/quote]
Thanks no sense dude. EU is bad because of the world wars in the 20th. Um, ok.
[quote]The other thing which is annoying to many is the fact that British political history has the annoying habit of being so out of tune or understanding with what this 'union of many states'is actually for.
All the other nations have their Nationalized industries which they protect fiercely !
They get dispensation or grants or tax breaks to shore-up their protected industries.
Britain, under Margaret Thatcher, SOLD all of ours ! So by the time it became clear what Germany and France's 'plan' was, it was already too late in terms of protecting British industry from European imports !
Single biggest screw-up in British industrial/political history !
A mistake no other nation has made since ![/quote]
EU is bad because Thatcher fucked up and because some nations have nationalized industries. I dunno, this is also a stretch. Looking around, most nationalized industries in the EU are pretty standard fare - rail systems, energy delivery companies, etc. How does this fuck over the UK?
Twice in the last 100+ years Britain has gone to war with Germany for 'wanting to invade other nations and rule them'.
Those decisions cost lots of British and Allied lives. To say nothing of the massive debt Britain accrude in terms of money spent and borrowed in order to fight them. Largely without European nations help.
For example,rationing of food; oil; petrol.....everything ! began in Britain in 1939 and didn't end until 1954 !
An entire nation lived in poverty for that length of time !
And we WON the war ! [/quote]
Thanks no sense dude. EU is bad because of the world wars in the 20th. Um, ok.
[quote]The other thing which is annoying to many is the fact that British political history has the annoying habit of being so out of tune or understanding with what this 'union of many states'is actually for.
All the other nations have their Nationalized industries which they protect fiercely !
They get dispensation or grants or tax breaks to shore-up their protected industries.
Britain, under Margaret Thatcher, SOLD all of ours ! So by the time it became clear what Germany and France's 'plan' was, it was already too late in terms of protecting British industry from European imports !
Single biggest screw-up in British industrial/political history !
A mistake no other nation has made since ![/quote]
EU is bad because Thatcher fucked up and because some nations have nationalized industries. I dunno, this is also a stretch. Looking around, most nationalized industries in the EU are pretty standard fare - rail systems, energy delivery companies, etc. How does this fuck over the UK?
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
@QuixoticSoul Because we don't own our own !
They were all sold off to other companies. Many of them European !
Thus we have no industries in which to compete.
Name one other country where their electricity is supplied by a French or Dutch company ?.....
It wouldn't happen !
But Thatcher sold all these off trying to make Britain 'competitive' BEFORE the 'Common market' was abandoned and the European Union formed !
They were all sold off to other companies. Many of them European !
Thus we have no industries in which to compete.
Name one other country where their electricity is supplied by a French or Dutch company ?.....
It wouldn't happen !
But Thatcher sold all these off trying to make Britain 'competitive' BEFORE the 'Common market' was abandoned and the European Union formed !
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Picklebobble2 So, re-nationalize some. It just takes will and money. This has nothing to do with the EU.
As for other countries, Russians mine and supply our own Uranium to us for our civilian power plants - no big deal.
As for other countries, Russians mine and supply our own Uranium to us for our civilian power plants - no big deal.
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
@Rosejilly USSR (which doesn't even exist anymore) was oil. NOT electricity or gas.
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
@QuixoticSoul Dictators 're-nationalize' things they don't own. Not normal countries.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Picklebobble2 Of course they do - the general difference in in terms of how and why. Here in the US, it requires congressional approval ever since SCOTUS slapped down Truman's attempt to nationalize the steel industry, but it can and has been done. It can be done on a small or on a large scale - for example Hamburg is in the process of reacquiring its power grid, and it's part of a nation-wide remunicipalization movement.
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@Picklebobble2 [quote]f you're in the EU you have to abide by a set of laws that don't always favour your nation.
You, as a nation, only get one vote. So it's often the way that others vote against your own interests in favour of their own.[/quote]
That why the Scots want independence. As things are, they have to abide by rules made by the English which certainly don't favour Scotland.
[quote]As you can imagine if you have 27 different countries it's kinda hard to get political decisions that don't have quite an impact on how you live your life; way you work; run your business; import and export; secure your borders etc.[/quote]
I wonder how federations like the US with 50 different "countries" (states) and Australia manage it. Perhaps they aren't as successful as they appear to be.
You, as a nation, only get one vote. So it's often the way that others vote against your own interests in favour of their own.[/quote]
That why the Scots want independence. As things are, they have to abide by rules made by the English which certainly don't favour Scotland.
[quote]As you can imagine if you have 27 different countries it's kinda hard to get political decisions that don't have quite an impact on how you live your life; way you work; run your business; import and export; secure your borders etc.[/quote]
I wonder how federations like the US with 50 different "countries" (states) and Australia manage it. Perhaps they aren't as successful as they appear to be.
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
@suzie1960 Well the U.S. is classic in this regard. Pick any part of their history you like !
Government makes a law. Law gets ignored in certain states. Government then takes those States through the court process. Sometimes all the way up to the Supreme court before the State capitulates.
The Scots are going through a wave of Nationalism. As they do every so often. And every Scots. politician thinks they'd be better off if they try and screw Britain by attempting to join the EU.
That way they'd be like all the smaller nations within it.
Signing up to all their rules and regulations in return for grants and loans that would see Scotland become some....imagined Nirvana !
But EVERY time they ask the Scots for a vote on independence, they can't secure it with enough votes !
Government makes a law. Law gets ignored in certain states. Government then takes those States through the court process. Sometimes all the way up to the Supreme court before the State capitulates.
The Scots are going through a wave of Nationalism. As they do every so often. And every Scots. politician thinks they'd be better off if they try and screw Britain by attempting to join the EU.
That way they'd be like all the smaller nations within it.
Signing up to all their rules and regulations in return for grants and loans that would see Scotland become some....imagined Nirvana !
But EVERY time they ask the Scots for a vote on independence, they can't secure it with enough votes !
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
@QuixoticSoul 'Re-acquiring' as a matter of 'law' or 'buying the company out' ?
Why would any court grant that ?
We're not in time of war.
There's no great depression.
Where's the 'reason' to grant it ?
Why would any court grant that ?
We're not in time of war.
There's no great depression.
Where's the 'reason' to grant it ?
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Picklebobble2 Buying the company out. That’s how you usually do these things when there’s no particularly pressing reason.
thatscottishguy · 26-30, M
@Picklebobble2 Everytime we ask for a vote on independence we can't secure the votes? How many votes on independence do you think we've had? The correct answer is one after a scaremongering campaign and one of the big issues was staying in the UK to remain in the EU. When we get our second referendum this "wave of nationalism" will be successful.
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
@thatscottishguy Lots of luck !