1 more labour MP and 3 conservative MPs quit their respective parties to join the 7 other labour MPs
What are their policies? Why are they calling themselves a group and not a party? (The second part is a leading question, apologies)
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MartinII · 70-79, M
Nine out of 10 are at odds with their party on a wide range of issues, but the one thing they have in common is opposition to Brexit. I think there are two reasons they are not calling it a party at present. First, they don’t have any agreed policies and second they don’t have a supporting organisation, or anyone to fund it. Of course that may change quickly.
The tenth, Joan Ryan, is quite different and in my opinion more interesting. She has resigned from the Labour Party solely on the grounds of the Labour leadership’s anti-semitism and opposition to the state of Israel (opposition to its existence, not just its government’s policies). She is quite right to link those two things.
The tenth, Joan Ryan, is quite different and in my opinion more interesting. She has resigned from the Labour Party solely on the grounds of the Labour leadership’s anti-semitism and opposition to the state of Israel (opposition to its existence, not just its government’s policies). She is quite right to link those two things.
gol979 · 41-45, M
@MartinII as I said, it was a leading question, apologies.
Here's my take......they aren't calling it a party (it clearly is) because of they do they will have to declare who they're getting their funding from. As it stands, they have registered as a private company and its HQ is in Panama........a tax haven.
They all quoted antisemitism as a reason also that the Labour party is institutionally racist.
Anti-Semitism is vile and has no place in any group or society but 0.04% of upheld antisemitic complaints wouldn't suggest that it is institutional. Also, chukka who looks like the lead person in this group, was chair of a panel looking into antisemitism in the Labour party and in 2016 said that he found zero evidence that it was antisemitic.......but in 2 years it's become institutional?
Joan Ryan is different. A staunch protector of the Israeli government and you may recall that she said corbyn was sharing a stage with a holocaust denier......turns out she was on the panel also. Plus please see "the lobby" documentary for a real look into her. Also, one of the worst offenders in the expense scandal.
Then, after saying that they left the Labour party because it's institutionally racist, Angela Smith (loves privatisation of water and her and her husband directly benefit financially for this industry) called BAME "funny tinge" then apologised and blamed it on doing 6 hours of interviews even though it was only 2 hours after they held their first press conference.
Finally, they all want a second vote on brexit.......but ironically not one of them are having a by-election. Couldn't make this shit up
Here's my take......they aren't calling it a party (it clearly is) because of they do they will have to declare who they're getting their funding from. As it stands, they have registered as a private company and its HQ is in Panama........a tax haven.
They all quoted antisemitism as a reason also that the Labour party is institutionally racist.
Anti-Semitism is vile and has no place in any group or society but 0.04% of upheld antisemitic complaints wouldn't suggest that it is institutional. Also, chukka who looks like the lead person in this group, was chair of a panel looking into antisemitism in the Labour party and in 2016 said that he found zero evidence that it was antisemitic.......but in 2 years it's become institutional?
Joan Ryan is different. A staunch protector of the Israeli government and you may recall that she said corbyn was sharing a stage with a holocaust denier......turns out she was on the panel also. Plus please see "the lobby" documentary for a real look into her. Also, one of the worst offenders in the expense scandal.
Then, after saying that they left the Labour party because it's institutionally racist, Angela Smith (loves privatisation of water and her and her husband directly benefit financially for this industry) called BAME "funny tinge" then apologised and blamed it on doing 6 hours of interviews even though it was only 2 hours after they held their first press conference.
Finally, they all want a second vote on brexit.......but ironically not one of them are having a by-election. Couldn't make this shit up
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@MartinII That lets the cat out of the bag really. It shows what the 'anti-Semitism' scandal in labour is really about. Lucianna Berger got 'bullied' by her local party because someone called her a Zionist on FB. Given that she is a former director of Labour Friend's of Israel, it's not much of a stretch.
MartinII · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 It only “lets the cat out of the bag” if you take the view that anti-Zionism is compatible with a friendly or unprejudiced attitude towards Jewish people; or indeed that it is an acceptable line for the leader of a major western political party to take about a sovereign state and ally. I don’t.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@MartinII Israel is like apartheid era South Africa, so yeah.
MartinII · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 No it isn’t! But the point, and this is why Joan Ryan’s resignation is so important, is that the problem for the Labour Party, usually described as anti-semitism, is really anti-Zionism, which nobody can deny.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@MartinII You have to distinguish between criticism of the Israeli state and anti Jewish racism. Much of this debate clouds that issue so actual racists like tommy robinson then get ignored
MartinII · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 I think you have misunderstood my point. Anti-Zionism is not criticism of the Israeli state, it’s a belief that Israel should not exist and therefore, presumably, that its inhabitants should be driven into the sea or transported to somewhere else. In my book that’s racism, even if its adherents are not racist in their individual dealings with Jews in other contexts.
gol979 · 41-45, M
@MartinII so what is Joan Ryan saying? That Labour is institutionally against the existence of Israel or that it is racist against the Jewish community as a whole?
I know that they're pretty much the same but you're making the differentiation and just wanted clarity. Apologies for my ignorance
I know that they're pretty much the same but you're making the differentiation and just wanted clarity. Apologies for my ignorance
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@MartinII Even ttge definitions of zionism and anti zionism are things which are contested. Personally, I prefer not to use the terms myself.
However, the political movement of zionism is not anymore about protection or establishment of a Ln Israeli state but about its expansion. So I don't accept that calling someone a Zionist is racist.
However, the political movement of zionism is not anymore about protection or establishment of a Ln Israeli state but about its expansion. So I don't accept that calling someone a Zionist is racist.
MartinII · 70-79, M
@gol979 She’s saying both, and by implication that the two go together, which I think is right. While I differentiate between the two terms, I’m arguing that the two are really the same thing in substance. If someone is anti-Zionist (in the full sense of opposing the existence of the state of Israel) then I think that makes them intrinsically anti-semitic.
MartinII · 70-79, M
@Burnley123 Fair points. My own linguistic preference is to avoid the word racist when I can. I think it’s become a catch-all pejorative term which is used to cover a multitude of sins, and some things which are not sins at all.