Was Hitler a socialist?

@helenS Remove the word in brackets and we can agree. 😉

@Burnley123 Not sure but ok.

@helenS [quote][i]Socialism is based on (flawed) theories[/i][/quote]That would depend on whose brand or definition of socialism is being discussed as well as who is making the judgement of its flaws.

All generalisations are false 😉 🔀

@Really I removed the word "flawed".

@helenS Thank you. This socialist is giving you BA, just make sure you redistribute those SW coins. 😜

@helenS that's unusually thoughtful on here; Thanks!

@Really Maybe it was an unusual question.

@Really Helen is pretty cool and thoughtful (for a Conservative).

@Burnley123 Socialism is based on brilliant theories, by excellent men (and women): Rousseau, Hegel, Marx, Luxemburg, Sartre - that's why it's so seductive and dangerous. It attracts the best people.

Conservatives are essentially only sceptics.

@helenS So when socialist become violent as they always do they become fascists? Just curious.

@silmarilion456 What theories is Fascism based on please?

@helenS Socialist theories.

@hippyjoe1955 No they don't become Fascists when they become violent. Socialists follow doctrines.

@helenS

@silmarilion456 Blood and soil nationalism is not a theory, it's a crime.

@helenS Well, Nazism was based on theories (a lot worse than flawed ones, of course) as well as violence and hate. And socialism, especially in its Communist guise, is not free from violence and hate. And, for what it’s worth, the Nazi Party of course had Socialist in its name. I agree generally with the thought underlying your comment, but it’s not a straightforward dichotomy.

@MartinII I beg to disagree dear Martin.

(a) Nazism is [u]not based[/u] on any conceivable theory. On the contrary, their "theories" are based on their violence. Their "theories" are just [u]made up[/u] to justify the hate they spread.

(b) Socialist theories [u]lead to[/u] violence. Really this is not the same as being [u]based on[/u] violence. Socialist theories are dangerous and seductive [u]because[/u] they are brilliant and thoughtful. Reading Marx is an intellectual joy of the first class. I understand why his writings have been so seductive, and why so many great people, such as Rosa Luxemburg (I love her), have become socialists. In a sense [i]socialism is more dangerous to humanity than fascism[/i], because it attracts the best people; as opposed to fascism, which attracts only bestial scum.

Dixi et salvavi animam meam.

@helenS I agree with you entirely, and I didn’t intend to say anything different. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Nazism purported to be based on theory, but of course the theories were preposterous and as you say were designed in an attempt to justify violence. Socialism, on the other hand, has sometimes led to violence. Anyway, you put it more eloquently than I can.

I’m afraid my Latin is too rusty for me to follow your last sentence. Does Google Translate do Latin?

@MartinII It's the final sentence of Marx' "Critic of the Gotha Programme", meaning "I have spoken and saved my soul."

@helenS Ah, thank you!

@helenS

You think Fashism didn't have theories? And even if we agree on the fact that they had theories... why would all of them be based on "violence" and "hate"? Not a lot of political movements have theories that are based on violent and hate and do good in elections... ussually they have a lot more going on too. 😅

And Socialists were pretty happy with Marx, if I recall correctly they saw Marx as the guy that gave "Socialism" a "scientific" background. Which it didn't really have before Marx. Depending on what "Socialist" you read, most of them came to the conclussion that at a certain moment of time a "revolution" had to break out that overtrew the old system and went to a new. These "revolutions" aren't really peacefull. Marx actively stood with armed revolt and a lot of leftist thinkers wrote books pondering on how to use violence. It's inherit to a lot of socialist thinkers. That it lead to violence isn't just a coincedence it's part of the program.