The largest defeat on a government motion EVER in British history.

@puck61 we can't agree hence the problem

The rest of us don't matter.

@SW-User Well, doesn't the majority eventually get what the majority wants? That is why I hate seeing nations dissolve into toxic multiculturalism. The English are losing or have lost control of England. People who depend on the dole and council housing are going to push for as much subsidy as they possibly can get, so that tips the scales, and it's the English who are most likely to be last on the list for council housing now. We are trying to stop that from happening in the states, but it's been happening since the early 70's.

@puck61 that's not the UK I live in. Our problem on social housing has been decades of no house building

@thatscottishguy [image deleted]

@SW-User That and it seems the middle easterners and Africans go to the front of the line from everything I've heard and read. I'm not stupid though. I don't wholeheartedly believe everything I read about the 'goings on' overseas, since I know full well misinformation is peddled about the states, it would seem logical that the reverse would be true also.

@puck61 WTF has middle fasteners & Africans, got to do with the EU?

@Harriet03 The EU is the sow with all the teats for the sucklers.

@Harriet03 yes but when did logic have any bearing in this argument

@puck61 yes.... My view is that 70 years of peace and growing collaboration has rebuilt Europe from the ruins of ww2 and the coming down of the iron curtain leading to a vibrant, wealthy, peaceful and attractive place where those whose countries are exploited by the EU, USA etc and ruled by despots and / or are being blown to bits by various protagonists. I think if I was working in a hole in Africa digging out precious metals to go into a TV I'd need a decade of wages to buy or saw drones bombing my city to bits. The EU or USA might look an attractive place.

@SW-User I hope everything works out for the best for England. If she wants to play nursemaid to the world that's her business and prerogative . I personally think multiculturalism destroys nations and cultures.

@puck61 England is only England due to the multiculturalism that goes back to the Romans, the Vikings, the Saxons, the Normans etc

American culture only goes back to the pilgrims and ignores largely the original indigenous population. We're all here so short a period and the world turns irrespective of borders we've recently drawn across a map.

@SW-User Yeah, that's all very enlightened and all, but when you let messed up people with messed up ideas into your country in large numbers, it messes your country up. You know it's true. The violence that London is experiencing now was welcomed into England with open arms. Same with all of western Europe. People's childish idealism has created dangerous multicultural chaos. In the mid 70's I never would have believed that Sweden would be the[b] rape capital of Europe.[/b] How did that happen?

@puck61 that's sadly a statistical anomaly widely misquoted.
Go read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden?wprov=sfla1 to understand why rape has risen in recent years. Nothing to do with immigration but how the law records certain offences now.

@SW-User It has everything to do with immigration, and you know it. There are bands that won't even perform there any more because of the gang rapes that occur at concerts. Those are not Vikings that are forming the rape gauntlets. They are not publishing public service pamphlets explaining how rape is not okay in Scandinavian culture because of new laws. It's happening in all the countries who let messed up people in in droves.

@puck61 you've not read the article. In the UK there is the same furore over Pakistani grooming gangs in some high profile cases but frankly so small percentage of all cases so we ignore the actual problem.

@SW-User The problem is toxic multiculturalism and childish idealism that won't accept the fact that some people and cultures need to stay in their own parts of the world. Only 1/20th of one percent of spiders are poisonous, but we still have an ingrained respect or fear for spiders. It is there for a good reason.

@puck61 I know you'll consider me a bleeding heart liberal. But humans are all humans. I don't discriminate.

@SW-User I definitely do! Some cultures are obviously more brutal and more primitive than others, and should not mix in large numbers with other cultures. There is a clear reason for the difference between Amsterdam and Mogadishu, and the sooner people get that through their thick heads the better.

@puck61 I'd contest that those two cities are so different not due to the ingrained culture but due to recent history. One a rich constitutional monarchy democracy of centuries of relative stability, accepting the blip of the ww2. The other a country only out of colonial control less than 60 years. For much of the last 30 years in a bitter civil war which caused full break down of law and order etc. Trying to compare or say it is underlying culture doesn't make any comparison sensible.

@SW-User You can't explain away the obvious. The reason south Chicago is the way it is , is the same reason London is turning into a violent mess. It isn't a matter of one race being superior, it's that the differences dictate the need for rational thinking . You don't put Beta's in with your guppies. People need to stop confusing 'racism' with 'realism' and leave things the way they are intended to be. Diversity is a wonderful thing, but multiculturalism is a recipe for disaster and it has been proven over and over again. Now we have Muslims in the United States making their own little city states inside of our country. That is not good-not good at all, but it is the nature of the beast. They are not bad or inferior, they simply need to stay in their part of the world.

@puck61 hmm and if only the pilgrims had thought that in the 16th century or the Christians that came to Celtic Britain before the first millennium. There wouldn't be the culture you claim to be protecting then at all. Multiculturalism and migration has been what has shaped all cultures throughout history I can't see it changing.

@SW-User You ever walk down the streets of Beijing? Moscow? Mumbai? Riyadh? Tehran? There is a big difference between natural selection and sociological suicide. You know what I'm talking about.

@puck61 honestly I don't they are all different because of different history, culture, weather, current politics, economic situation etc. But all populated by humans the same as me