Theresa May and the tories bottle the upcoming vote on their deal to leave the EU
Democracy at its finest 馃憤
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Burnley123 路 41-45, M
I'm disappointed but not surprised.
She knew she was going to lose the vote (and probably her premiership) so she bottled it. Once again, sticking her head in the sand and putting her own survival ahead of the national interest. At least if the vote was over with then Parliament could move to its next step; whether that be a leadership contest, an election or a second referendum. Now we are stuck in a crisis before the crisis and even further from resolving this mess.
This is really bad news for the country because the clock is ticking on a no-deal Brexit. If May has a plan, it will be delaying the vote so that the MPs are forced to accept her deal to prevent a no-deal Brexit due to the lack of time for a new plan. There is no credible way that the EU is going to re-negotiate major issues at this point.
She knew she was going to lose the vote (and probably her premiership) so she bottled it. Once again, sticking her head in the sand and putting her own survival ahead of the national interest. At least if the vote was over with then Parliament could move to its next step; whether that be a leadership contest, an election or a second referendum. Now we are stuck in a crisis before the crisis and even further from resolving this mess.
This is really bad news for the country because the clock is ticking on a no-deal Brexit. If May has a plan, it will be delaying the vote so that the MPs are forced to accept her deal to prevent a no-deal Brexit due to the lack of time for a new plan. There is no credible way that the EU is going to re-negotiate major issues at this point.
Burnley123 路 41-45, M
@gol979 Exactly. They won't renegotiate because they have the power and are sick to death of the process. People who think we can get a better deal are not realistic.
gol979 路 41-45, M
@Burnley123 a better deal than no deal or T-Bags deal......I know there's better options out there. Labour's idea (not sure the eu will accept as they are showing their true colours, neoliberal) is way better
Burnley123 路 41-45, M
@gol979 I think Labour would have been able to renegotiate a bit better deal given time. It would have been stronger on workers rights + environment protections and less strong on state aid. The basic problem is that Labour is still trying to triangulate on freedom of movement because its the main priority for Labour Brexit voters. Trouble is that you just can't block freedom of movement (i.e. immigration) and still have the benefits of EU membership.
I agree that the EU is neo-liberal and hate what they have done to Syriza in Greece but the basic problems about Britain's lack of negotiating power are still there. Nothing I've typed on these pages is an endorsement of them but it's about the concrete choices available. Any hard-Brexit would come at huge cost. A right-wing Brexit would but so would a left-wing Brexit. It would give more freedom to fight for the future but only in a time of economic crisis.
I agree that the EU is neo-liberal and hate what they have done to Syriza in Greece but the basic problems about Britain's lack of negotiating power are still there. Nothing I've typed on these pages is an endorsement of them but it's about the concrete choices available. Any hard-Brexit would come at huge cost. A right-wing Brexit would but so would a left-wing Brexit. It would give more freedom to fight for the future but only in a time of economic crisis.
gol979 路 41-45, M
@Burnley123 hmmm food for thought. There is a debate to be had about immigration though but not through the lens of pigmentation......the free movement of people had pitted the working class against each other and it has helped the bourgeois stagnate wages, zero hours, reduction of rights. If the EU was serious it would impose a EU wide minimum wage
Burnley123 路 41-45, M
@gol979 I think immigration is too big an issue and at the very least, people overestimate its effects. Like I say, I'm just realistic here. I'm a eurosceptic remain voter but a pragmatist as well as a leftist. If we are in favour of a hard-Brexit, then it might have opportunities for the left but it will be a high stakes ideological war between the right and left at a time of economic crisis. Is the left of this country ready for that? I hope we are but I'm not sure and it'd be a massive risk.
gol979 路 41-45, M
@Burnley123 a hard brexit (WTO) is what's used when the dominant economic powers want to curtail countries trying anything but "free market" along with the IMF. I don't think a hard brexit is good for anyone apart from the derivative sector and the assets strippers.......and they are more than likely the same bunch of wankers
Burnley123 路 41-45, M
@gol979 This is what I mean. I think some 'Lexiteers' are naive about this and overestimate how much freedom Brexit gives us from international capitalism. We are only a mid-sized country. A crisis could benefit the hard-right before it benefits us.
Edit: I would have voted against in the 1970s ref but that was a time before neo-liberalism or international financialisation. It's a different situation now.
Edit: I would have voted against in the 1970s ref but that was a time before neo-liberalism or international financialisation. It's a different situation now.
gol979 路 41-45, M
@Burnley123 yep.....on top of that seems like there maybe a global recession again. But this time, surely, no bailing out the banks and conveniently just raised interest rates so can bring it down again, but not enough. They could QE again but surely everyone knew that was a con too?
Burnley123 路 41-45, M
@gol979 I think we agree on general economics. I'd rather QE was about protecting savers than underwriting the banking system. I've talked moderate a lot but where I am radical is that I think we need to move away from investment banking altogether because the whole system is a dysfunctional con. I think a global recession will come again soon. With the Tories in power, it would be an excuse for further austerity.
gol979 路 41-45, M
@Burnley123 holy shit......you think they can get away with more austerity? Which is an economic and political choice.
Did you read that article on the French protest and how different it was here? After 18months of what we have been getting the French start to protest.....here we elect them and then vote them in twice more. Genuine question......why? It can't just be the media? Does our societal make up impinge on our palate for inequality?
Did you read that article on the French protest and how different it was here? After 18months of what we have been getting the French start to protest.....here we elect them and then vote them in twice more. Genuine question......why? It can't just be the media? Does our societal make up impinge on our palate for inequality?
Burnley123 路 41-45, M
@gol979 You can always take things further. Raab and Mogg want a 'Singapore Model' low-tax nation. Their real plan (though rarely publically stated) is that to have a hard-Brexit means you can be a disaster capitalist and move the country even further to the right. They are Ayn Rand fans so think of America right-wingers who obsessively blame 'Big Government' even though their country is already really right-wing. This is what I mean by danger.
Yes, the French have balls and will fight back in the streets. They still have strong unions too. The British left is stronger in representative politics but is really weak in terms of outside Parliamentary forces and this is a big problem.
Yes, the French have balls and will fight back in the streets. They still have strong unions too. The British left is stronger in representative politics but is really weak in terms of outside Parliamentary forces and this is a big problem.