Hey Americans: Why are y'all against free healthcare?
Why are you happy for your taxes to go to firemen and police and roads but when it comes to universal healthcare you can't stand the idea of putting money in the pot?
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Your equating of maintaining someone elses care to maintaining the health of another human is in itself telling.. But skipping over that, health programs are more to be equated with the road and freeway network, provided as a single unit for all to use, no matter whether you drive a little in one area or a lot all over. Or would you prefer to have your own personal roads built?@AceWarbringer
I might considering the condition of the roads where i live. I'd at least be able to have something better.
My point is, why should i spend my money on people who abuse thier cars?
I'm convinced that our current situation with healthcare has been brought about by government meddling. More government has never worked in "any" situation. This is just handing them the sword to stab you with.
And by meddling, i mean the bailouts and insurance requirements. If healthcare couldn't sustain itself, then it should have failed.
On that we can agree.. The Banks should never have been bailed out either. Or the farmers. or the steel industry. Lets get real. Government throws WAY more money at businesses to keep them on life support than it would cost to give decent healthcare to the entire population. But I guess that's different when business kicks in for an election campaign.@AceWarbringer
[quote]Would you pay for the maintenance of my car?[/quote]
Of course not. But i'd be happy to pay a little bit of money off each paycheck that would fix your car when you needed it and fix my car when i needed it.
@Pikachu and are you willing to put your car in government hands? Where at any time they can deny a repair because of how many oil changes have been done?
Or even better, let's say you get a brand new car, and some drunk wrecks it. Then you have to fight to get Amy repairs done because the engine is dead, but the rest of the car is fine.
I do not want these senarios applied to people. I definitely do not want to put my health into the hands of a panel, who has no notion of who i am, and let them make life or death decisions on my care.
No. Not now, not ever.
Because the maitnence makes these issues worse down the road. Skip an oil change here, tires there, then have an accident. Suddenly someone decides that because you made those decisions before, obviously you dont deserve the repairs.
I'm a limited government strict constitutionalist. Do not bring government into my healthcare, they can't even fix the goddamnd roads.
[quote]I definitely do not want to put my health into the hands of a panel, who has no notion of who i am, and let them make life or death decisions on my care. [/quote]
Do you think that's how universal healthcare works? Because that scenario sounds more to e like the standard practice of insurance companies trying as hard as they can not to pay out on a policy.
@AceWarbringer You clearly have little/no idea what universal health care provision is and are taking your points from those who scare monger. You'll find it isn't close to what you imagine it is.
Yes. Selfish is [i]exactly[/i] what it is. Me, i'm happy to pay into a system that takes care of people who can't afford to care for themselves and if and when my turn comes around, i'll be glad other people are paying into it too. Am i wealthy? SHIT no. But i'm of the opinion that the world would be a better place if people thought less about "me, me, me" and a little more about helping out the next guy.
[quote]Can i trust the generosity of a government panel, or insurance panel, to make a life or death decision on my behalf. [quote][/quote][/quote]
Again, can i ask where you think this panel comes in? Do you think that those who have the money are prevented from seeking out and paying for medicare? Nah man. Universal healthcare doesn't prevent you from doing that, it simply provides better care for more people who don't have the money.
[quote]Again, can i ask where you think this panel comes in? Do you think that those who have the money are prevented from seeking out and paying for medicare? Nah man. Universal healthcare doesn't prevent you from doing that, it simply provides better care for more people who don't have the money[/quote]
I'm sorta reminded about the couple from the UK who appealed to everyone and everybody to save their kid.
A child who was declared brain dead by a [b] Panel [/b] and subsequently taken off life support. [i]when they had several doctors willing to try, they were declined the ability to take the child elsewhere [i/]
Now you want a better example? I bet you do.
V. A.
Name a better managed government program. /Sarcasm
Queue's three months long. At minimum. When I myself had a bad time, it was a bitch and a half to get in. And when i did? They loaded me up with drugs and sent me on my merry way. Guess what, I'm here by godamned luck and my own determination.
Now, where is all the money for this universal health care going to come from? You say it's just a small amount, name one government Institute that doesn't need more money every year. One.
i can see we have oposing views on this subject. Why do you want this universal healthcare so badly?
Ok i see what you mean there and i agree that universal healthcare is a one size fits most model, not one size fits all.
That brings us to your question: "Why do you want this universal healthcare so badly?"
Because the result is better healthcare for more people. Not going into crippling debt when you get sick or hurt because your insurance doesn;t cover it or you can't afford it or you lost your job with benefits. It means people don't have to forgo medical treatment so that they can pay the rent. It means that those who can do for those who can't. And your turn might come too.
I nearly emptied my checking account last month paying rent and groceries and i am still damn happy to pay a little piece off my check to help take care of people in their time of need.
Every other developed nation has some form of universal healthcare. Are any of them trying to repeal it? If americans could get past this self-centered preoccupation with what [i]they[/i] need and what [i]they[/i] deserve, they might see that their fellow citizens need and deserve the same things. And they might be willing to contribute to that end.
OKay, let's go through this shall we? I'm English living in the USA so have quite considerable knowledge of what the NHS is and isn't, okay?
[quote]I'm sorta reminded about the couple from the UK who appealed to everyone and everybody to save their kid. [/quote]
Hmmm, sadly appealing to everyone for their kid wouldn't save him. Neither would medicine...their child had very little functioning brain matter. A tragic case of medics not being magicians that they'd love to be.
[quote]A child who was declared brain dead by a Panel and subsequently taken off life support. when they had several doctors willing to try, they were declined the ability to take the child elsewhere [i/][/quote]
Again, you have only the headline grabbing story to go on..LOOK into the actual case and then decide if that child would survive. A 'panel' didn't decide. It was medics who had their patient's condition and prognosis as their priority.
[quote]Now you want a better example? I bet you do.
V. A.[/quote]
Trump has three of his golfing buddies on that, did you know?
[quote]Name a better managed government program. /Sarcasm
Queue's three months long. At minimum. When I myself had a bad time, it was a bitch and a half to get in. And when i did? They loaded me up with drugs and sent me on my merry way. Guess what, I'm here by godamned luck and my own determination.
Now, where is all the money for this universal health care going to come from? You say it's just a small amount, name one government Institute that doesn't need more money every year. One.
i can see we have oposing views on this subject. Why do you want this universal healthcare so badly? [/quote]
Okay...In order for me.. Aged 6, appendix removed, but it was burst so blood poisoning which was a bad thing..I was in hospital three weeks.
Various work injuries treated in ER and outpatients at hospital and family doctors..Direct cost at point of need? Zero apart from outpatient prescriptions, that were about $5 each, whatever they were.
Bi lateral inguinal hernia, week in hospital (1997)..cost? Zero at point of need.
Key hole surgery right knee. (1998) ...cost? Zero at point of need.
Parent: Both had by pass ops, mother had pancreatitis and treatment for various things including reconstructive surgery...cost? Zero at point of need
Father, duodenal ulcer treatment, heart problems, two TIAs, and in his final week alive, hospital in private room with me staying in adjoining living room..
Cost? Zero at point of need.
The above doesn't include various emergencies that needed ambulance transfer from hme to hospital...cost to all? Zero at point of need..
No it isn't free, but paid for from a modest deduction (about $50) per month from salary plus revenue from taxation...And it's STILL less than half the cost of what the health service is in the USA.
In the top eleven western countries USA ranks 11 out of 11. UK is about 2.
