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India will now execute child rapists. Thoughts?

"The Indian government approved a new measure on Saturday that will prescribe capital punishment for anyone convicted of raping children under the age of 12."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/04/21/india-approves-death-penalty-child-rapists/538932002/

I understand that hanging is the main method of execution in India

I'm torn on this. What about non-adult child rapists, the mentally ill and the possibility of executing an innocent person?

But India has a bad record of protecting women and girls, who are routinely victims of so-called honor rapes, forcing them to walk naked in town streets or stripping school girls naked in the classroom for not doing homework.

Maybe this will help?

EDIT: Apparently, the law only applies to rapists of girls. Men who rape boys get a pass on the hangman.

EDIT2: Found this. It explains the new law.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/what-is-the-new-ordinance-on-rape-under-criminal-laws-5146208/

There's also this:
"India's Supreme Court Rules That Sex With A Bride Under 18 Is Rape"
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/10/12/557347037/india-s-court-gives-brides-age-15-to-18-protection-from-marital-rape

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MeisterAndrew · 41-45, M

Only thing I'm worried about when we start talking execution is people that are innocent. I also don't know they consider rape, if it's real rape only or also "statutory rape" where the person consented.

SW-User

@MeisterAndrew
a child under 12 cant consent..

beckyromero · 36-40, F

@MeisterAndrew

I also don't know they consider rape, if it's real rape only or also "statutory rape" where the person consented.

Do you think an 11 year old girl can actually "consent"? That if she's 'persuaded' to say 'yes' that it's not a "real rape"?

MeisterAndrew · 41-45, M

@SW-User Yes they can. So you never heard about a 13 and 11 year old playing and one says let's do this thing and the other says yes? You may not think that it's right and that they can fully appreciate the consequences but it doesn't change the fact it's consensual in the same way a child will say yes I want to go to the park.

How will such a scenario be handled? Saying that they can't consent when they used to get married is just bull. So how will consensual vs non-consensual sex acts be handled? Can't be the same just because they're both considered wrong.

AcidBurn

@beckyromero "consent" varies by country. In Austrian law, prosecutors must prove that an attacker is fully aware the act is nonconsensual for a more severe rape conviction to hold. The victim has to prove their attacker knew they didn't consent.

beckyromero · 36-40, F

@AcidBurn

"consent" varies by country.

It's 18 in India. There is some confusion as to under-age marital rape.

MeisterAndrew · 41-45, M

@beckyromero Yes I do and in many cultures they actually can. It may not be what we grow up with in western countries but it doesn't change the fact. Now I'm not saying there aren't adults who take advantage of children when the children don't actually want it but I've also heard from plenty of people as adults who now see it as something they did consent to.

It's that which has convinced me. So are you going to tell all these people their experience is wrong? How do you tell someone their experience of something is wrong when experiences are something deeply personal and you aren't the one that lived them? That to me just sounds like people telling others how they should live and view things.

beckyromero · 36-40, F

@MeisterAndrew

how will consensual vs non-consensual sex acts be handled?

Found this. It explains the new law.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/what-is-the-new-ordinance-on-rape-under-criminal-laws-5146208/

There's also this:
"India's Supreme Court Rules That Sex With A Bride Under 18 Is Rape"
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/10/12/557347037/india-s-court-gives-brides-age-15-to-18-protection-from-marital-rape

AcidBurn

@beckyromero I'm just saying the court definition of rape and consent can vary from what some are used to. I'm not sure how India defines them, but a low conviction rate is disheartening. I'm not disputing the age.

beckyromero · 36-40, F

@MeisterAndrew

Yes I do and in many cultures they actually can. It may not be what we grow up with in western countries but it doesn't change the fact.

Also doesn't change the fact that, in India, the age of consent is 18.

MeisterAndrew · 41-45, M

@beckyromero No it doesn't and that is my point. These are cultural norms enforced by law. In my country the legal age is 16 and 13 if you are 15 and under.

I don't have a problem if it's actual rape but it should be across the board then and not have a cut-off age in any case. When it comes to norms however it's different and I don't believe India, or any country for that matter, has any stance to decide on who can consent or not when they can't even agree on that.

beckyromero · 36-40, F

@MeisterAndrew I think you will find you are in a very small minute minority.

MeisterAndrew · 41-45, M

@beckyromero That may be the case but I don't think that changes the facts. That the world can't decide on an age of consent and that in most of the world it's still under 18 should be a clue to everybody that consent isn't a simple concept we can just attach an age to.

beckyromero · 36-40, F

@MeisterAndrew

That the world can't decide on an age of consent and that in most of the world it's still under 18 should be a clue to everybody that consent isn't a simple concept we can just attach an age to.

We don't have a world government. So that should be a clue to would-be rapists to abide by the laws of the country you are in.

MeisterAndrew · 41-45, M

@beckyromero We don't have a world government yet we have almost universal laws governing theft, murder, assault, and even rape. It's with the much more nuanced issues where we don't and statutory rape is one of them. What would make someone a rapist in one country but not in another?

I also don't believe people should just follow the law. In many countries being gay is a crime. If WE actually abided by the law we would still have apartheid but no we took a stance and forced the government to take notice and change it.

The main reason there is an arbitrary age to begin with is that legal systems don't want to deal with the bigger issues and simply want an easy way to decide cases. Doesn't make it right though.

beckyromero · 36-40, F

@MeisterAndrew

If WE actually abided by the law we would still have apartheid but no we took a stance and forced the government to take notice and change it.

Really? Comparing the effort to end apartheid to giving men the right to rape 11-year old girls?

🙄

MeisterAndrew · 41-45, M

@beckyromero Again you're not considering all cases and only the clear cut ones.