Do trump supporters know he really isn't the savior type person he claims to be or...

@beckyromero those tariffs are not helping the working man, they are causing our imported steel to have added tariffs which will close some businesses that need the fine quality we don't produce/ those and other tariffs from other countries in response will raise prices on other goods. this will either cause prices to go up or layoffs or factories to shut down or all three, so how does that help the working man?

Because I'm not a "free trader." I'm a "fair trader."

I don't believe in letting countries with oppressive governments having full access to our markets when they don't have adequate child safety laws, severely restrict workers rights and trade union representation and don't allow their citizens to have many of the basic human rights we take for granted.

@beckyromero while i agree with all that you are wrong to think these tariffs are about that or that is what fair rade is. those are human rights violations. fair trade is each country offering the same tariffs etc, not how they treat their workers or citizens. i guess you don't order out Chinese much lol

and you still haven't explained how that helps john q. american public.

@ladycae OK, fine. I'll bottom line it for you: Trump is doing the right thing (Chinese tariffs) for the wrong reasons.

Not everything we do in foreign policy has to "help" us economically. Sometimes doing the right thing is what America foreign policy is (or should be) about.

@beckyromero except that you gave this big speech about helping john w american working guy and now have totally changed your tune and since China has no correlation between those tariffs and their human rights violations, how will they help? sanctions are what you want not tariffs.

@ladycae Wasn't aware that 50 words constituted a "big speech."
😉

I think what you are insinuating is that perhaps a general TRADE WAR with China would hurt American workers.

My comments about "fair trade" was more of a general viewpoint.

@beckyromero and as it is not called fair trade, it is called human rightsviolations and is handeled through sanctions that explain exactly why the sanctions take place. fair trade is

fair trade
noun
trade in which fair prices are paid to producers in developing countries.

@beckyromero We were already making headway in fair trade agreement with China. The U.S. goods trade deficit with China was $347.0 billion in 2016, a [b]5.5% decrease[/b] ($20.2 billion) over 2015. The United States has a services trade surplus of an estimated $38 billion with China in 2016, [b]up 13.6%[/b] from 2015. U.S. exports of services to China were an estimated $54.2 billion in 2016, [b]11.6% ($5.6 billion) more[/b] than 2015 and 412% greater than 2006 levels. It was [b]up roughly 908%[/b] from 2001.

Moreover, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce, U.S. exports of goods and services to China supported an estimated [b]911,000 jobs[/b] in 2015 (latest data available) (601,000 supported by goods exports and 309,000 supported by services exports).

Serious trade tariffs on China will affect the cost of machinery, electronics, toys & sports equipment, furniture & bedding and footwear. And if we make tariffs steep enough, China will find other suppliers, jeopardizing the economy for agricultural, aircraft, electronics & machinery, and vehicles. An estimated 90,000 jobs are estimated to be affected by proposed tariffs.

China's investment in the US was 27.5 billion in 2016 (latest data available), [b]up 63.8%[/b] from 2015.

And what Trump fails to consider at all is that sales of services in China by majority U.S.-owned affiliates were $55.2 billion in 2015, while sales of services in the United States by majority China-owned firms were only $5.7 billion.

Make no mistake: These tariffs are a power play, a game of one-upmanship against a country Trump purports to dislike yet does business with in his personal ventures. Trump - a pampered, narcissistic millionaire who has rarely helped anyone - was never a hero of the working man, and for "flyover country" folk, I'd suggest a little more research into anyone saying the words you long to hear.

reference added: https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/china-mongolia-taiwan/peoples-republic-china#

Please, spare me the USTR talking points.

I never favored PNTR with China in the first place.

@beckyromero Sorry, didn't mean to confuse the narrative with facts.

Never said Trump was a "a hero of the working man." Don't disagree that he is "a pampered, narcissistic millionaire who has rarely helped anyone."

I don't have a problem with those 'facts.' We're in agreement on those.

But we have a massive trade imbalance with China.

And I don't like giving preferential trade status to Commies, either.

@beckyromero first of all we never gave preferential trading to China as graylight pointed out had you bothered to read his post. and now we went from helpig the working man to not liking their human rights violations to not like trading with China because they are communist. you can't keep your talking points straight in your brain. or you are a troll and a waste o my time. either way, there is no discussing with you because you change the narrative to fit your whim of the moment goodbye.

@beckyromero An imbalance doesn't [i]de facto[/i] imply something bad. And really..."Commies?" Is this a bad 1985 film? First, what has communism ever done to diminish of threaten your way of life? Secondly, if you understood anything about economics, both countries only stand to lose with this stupid game of '[i]quien es mas macho.[/i]"

Funny...no one cared a whit about this giant, insidious trade imbalance with evil communist China until Trump whipped up a frenzied smoke screen to obscure his truly delusional policies.

@TotalMiss [i]Why do you even want a trade war?[/i]

@Graylight
[quote]First, what has communism ever done to diminish of threaten your way of life? [/quote]

Communist China doesn't have to do anything to directly diminish or threaten my way of life.

It's about what that government has done to other human beings since 1949.

[quote]Funny...no one cared a whit about this giant, insidious trade imbalance with evil communist China until Trump whipped up a frenzied smoke screen to obscure his truly delusional policies.[/quote]

Maybe just not recent presidents or the mainstream news.

@TotalMiss No. There is no trade war. Annual negotiations regarding trade and whatever balances result from it does not constitute war. Trade's ultimate goal isn't to make the most money from the most countries and stomp around like a petulant winner. Trade is about...[i]trade[/i]. If you don't want to rely on electronics from other countries, institute programs to trained skilled labor here. Or we can just keep bitching about people getting something for nothing.

Jesus God, why does the US characterize everything in terms of war, fight, win/lose?

@Graylight
[quote]why does the US characterize everything in terms of war, fight, win/lose?[/quote]

Because that's media hype. Trade "dispute" isn't as sexy or alarming.

that's the media and most medias do that world wide.

keeps their 'sheep' worried and tired.

@beckyromero Very true. The scary thing is, too many people are buying into the hype.

@TotalMiss And the US is the shining White Knight of upstanding business and international practice. Grow up; at least read a book.