Rex Tillerson blames Russia for London nerve gas attack ...

@Wraithorn There is ample evidence... on a number of dimensions, in a number of areas.

I think it is time to confront them on their behavior...

@WoodyAq Then let those who have evidence show it. Rumour and hearsay is not evidence.

@Wraithorn Mueller did. The chemical attack in London is obvious ...

As is complicity in the Syrian gas attacks.

Russian fingerprints are all over the place.

@Wraithorn A former known Russian double agent turns up poisoned by a nerve agent. This is Putin sending a message.

@CopperCicada That's what people are saying but where is the evidence. It would be just as easy to say that someone in British intelligence carried out that attack in order to justify more money for the military in order to guard against the "threatening" Russians.
Rumours and hearsay, no matter how often they are repeated, are not evidence.

@WoodyAq I disagree, where is the evidence.

@Wraithorn Of what? Of the London thing, that a former KGB agents and Putin-opponent is assassinated by a deadly chemical agent produced only by governments?

It doesn't help Russia's case that Russia regimes have a long history of assassinating dissidents on foreign soil using poison.

@Wraithorn When you hear the sound of hooves, most people think horses, not zebras.

It is not easy to craft and believe the conspiracy theory you are crafting.

@WoodyAq It's not a conspiracy theory. It's just ONE alternative possibility for which there is also no proof. I was just making that point. If you think your own government doesn't use propaganda on you then I suggest you think again and ask yourself,"Where is the real evidence ?"

@Wraithorn Another possibility is that it was space aliens. One could equally easily say that. They live among us, and the governmentis lying about their presence among us.

However, among the infinite number of things people could easily say, most people would have to work very hard to believe it.

The security service that has a long history of using exotic poisons to assassinate domestic dissidents living in London used an exotic poison to assassinate a domestic dissident living in London, on the other hand, doesn't require any mental gymnastics.

@WoodyAq You seem to be speaking from the point of view that the secret service from countries like England, USA, Israel etc. have never used such methods.
Your mention of ET's is a pathetic attempt at ridicule to silence someone who is not willing to just suck up the bullshit that politicians speak.
Show proof I say or don't bother.

@Wraithorn These secret services haven't the same history of using these methods. Especially against Russian dissidents. In fact, I know of no cases in which Americans killed eastern bloc dissidents with nerve gasses. I can name at least 5 such incidents with KGB involvement.

But indulge me, what do the Israelis have against this guy?

And your immediate grasp of a farfetched conspiracy theory kinda ridicules itself.

A woman in an abusive relationship dies. Her husband's three previous wives also died ... in similar ways.

Do we believe the husband's claim that the Free Masons killed her?

@Wraithorn Tillerson said they were responsible for the assassination attempt. So does Theresa May. That’s pretty solid.

@WoodyAq What I'm saying is, think for yourself and ask for evidence.

If I was to make assumptions based on just a cursory glance and hearsay then I would have to conclude that the English government is trying to send a message to the people suffering in Yemen. What message are they trying to send to those people ?

@Wraithorn I'm not making assumptions based on hearsay, I'm asking Motive, Means, Opportunity.

They all come up Putin.

They don't come up Israel. Or Yemen.

That's evidence.

@WoodyAq Actually, that's conjecture. Which is not even backed with circumstantial evidence.

To be totally honest with you, I too believe that the Russians did this. But I also agree with @Wraithorn, and the British government. REAL evidence is needed.

However, the question for me is, will that evidence ever be found?

@room101 There is a long history of Russians being assassinated in the UK.Alexander Litvinenko was poisoned with polonium. Alexander Perepilichny's is a suspected but not confirmed poisoning. Boris Berezovsky was framed a suicide.

@CopperCicada I know. I'm British remember?

But, past conduct, proves nothing. Especially if it's alleged past conduct.

And, just to add yet more grist to the mill, another Russian dissident was found dead in his London home last night.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/13/russian-exile-nikolai-glushkov-found-dead-at-his-london-home

@room101 Motive, means and opportunity is more than conjecture. It isn't proof, but it is evidence.

For example, if someone doesn't have the means, you rule them out as a suspect. You aren't doing that based on conjecture.

@room101 Past conduct proves a pattern of behaviour, or an MO. It is further evidence.

@room101 I'm not trying to bust balls. It just seems when it comes to these defected spies the KBG wants them to die slowly while everyone presumes to know who killed them. The parallels between Litvinenko and Skripal are outstanding. The difference is that polonium is ubiquitous in industrial settings. Novichok nerve agents are pretty specific.

@WoodyAq It is conjecture because motive, means and opportunity in and of itself is not evidence. At best, it's viable suspicion ie probable cause.

There is another flaw in your argument. Without a specific suspect, how can we establish opportunity? Or are we happy to assume that any Russian who happened to be in the UK at the time is a suspect?

@CopperCicada I didn't think that you were trying to "bust my balls". Sorry if my reply was a bit OTT. No offence intended.

I suppose I'm playing devil's advocate here because, as stated, I too think that the Russians did it. I just want to see some hard evidence.

@room101 No, at this point we have motive, and we have evidence of means, which as evidence does, dramatically narrows the list of suspects.

There is more evidence needed to meet the criminal justice standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. But I think we can still act on a number of fronts based on the evidence we have.

@room101 Novichok nerve agent?