Do you support Universal Income?

[b]Hawaii is considering introducing a basic income for all its citizens.
[/b]
The US state’s congress voted to look into the idea as research suggests a large number of current jobs are likely to be replaced by automated technology in the coming years.

State representative Chris Lee, who introduced the legislation, said: "Our economy is changing far more rapidly than anybody's expected.”

He added that it was important "to be sure that everybody will benefit from the technological revolution that we're seeing to make sure no one's left behind."

The bill declares that all families in Hawaii are entitled to “basic financial security” – paving the way for a policy that would guarantee this.

It also tasks several government offices with analysing the state’s economy and finding “ways to ensure all families have basic financial security, including an evaluation of different forms of a full or partial universal basic income."

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Burnley123 · 41-45, M

Yes and no. The 'no' is not for the reasons people typically think. The book 'Utopia for Realists' is very good on this.

Firstly, as the book above shows, all the case studies show that UBI does [b]not [/b]make people lazy. You got some cases of parents spending more time with kids and people spending more time in education (no bad things) Though no reduction in productivity. On this level, it is a good idea and the points you raise about automation mean that something will have to change.

I do however have the following concern, related to economic power:

1) UBI in an automation society would mean a society stratified into productive and unproductive camps, with the former paying for the later. All people being citizens with equal rights is something which I agree with though questions need to be asked whether this is sustainable when you have such a clear difference in economic bargaining power. Western democracy itself came off the back of the industrial working class, who society needed, organising and agitating for a bigger slice of the pie. To appease them; the elite needed to pay them more, improve working conditions and indeed expand the democratic franchise.

If people reliant on UBI feel persecuted by the ruling class, then nobody is going to care if they go on strike. You can't down tools if you are not needed to make anything.

A better solution would be to have an economy structured around full employment but with reduced hours. I think that would be better for society and would also be more politically sustainable. However, I am not completely against UBI per say.

sogdianrock · 61-69, M

hi Burnley123
I am sure The Rich will have no problem spending increased wealth. At some point a revolution must happen but of course a democratic one. Universal income is the least that must be done.
Best wishes
:)

Brianthesnail · 56-60, M

@Burnley123 you made some good points here

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@sogdianrock [quote]I am sure The Rich will have no problem spending increased wealth.[/quote] Absolutely. During automation, servicing the rich will be one of the few viable economies left.

[quote]At some point a revolution must happen but of course a democratic one. Universal income is the least that must be done.[/quote]

Yes, and you do know my politics lol. I am [i]not [/i]against UBI on principle and something must change. In fact, the whole structure of the economy must if we are to escape some kind of dystopia.

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Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Greenbare [quote]When all the working class is given Universal Basic Income then the rich won't be able to hire good people to produce goods and services they want to spend on.[/quote]

No but they will have robots.

[quote]Communism has always created HUGE shortages and famines when people find out they don't have to work and can't profit by work.[/quote]

I am not a communist but this is not true of communism. UBI is not communism and this is also not true of UBI.