Do you support Universal Income?

Hawaii is considering introducing a basic income for all its citizens.

The US state’s congress voted to look into the idea as research suggests a large number of current jobs are likely to be replaced by automated technology in the coming years.

State representative Chris Lee, who introduced the legislation, said: "Our economy is changing far more rapidly than anybody's expected.”

He added that it was important "to be sure that everybody will benefit from the technological revolution that we're seeing to make sure no one's left behind."

The bill declares that all families in Hawaii are entitled to “basic financial security” – paving the way for a policy that would guarantee this.

It also tasks several government offices with analysing the state’s economy and finding “ways to ensure all families have basic financial security, including an evaluation of different forms of a full or partial universal basic income."

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Socialclutz · 36-40, M

Terrible idea, Hawaii is so out of touch with reality it's laughable. I'd propose we not make technology automation the fore front of our research so ppl can work and be independent. When we make automation do the job some thing will happen and the system will fail. If we get so dependent on the automation and it fails how will anyone be able to fix it. We are on dangerous territory doing this.

sogdianrock · 61-69, M

hi Socialclutz ·
The rest of The World will be delighted to visit the Old Time US! Robots will design, build and repair themselves. Not sure you are quite grasping the future my man.
Best wishes
:)

QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M

@Socialclutz

I'd propose we not make technology automation the fore front of our research so ppl can work and be independent.

Not pursuing automation just makes you less competitive because someone else gets the drop on the critical tech. You simply end up importing everything because human-effort-intensive domestic stuff can't compete.

When we make automation do the job some thing will happen and the system will fail.

Yes. But people fail too. The failure rate is factored into overall cost/benefit analysis - and for a lot of applications already, automation wins. That will only accelerate. We're starting to replace knowledge workers like lawyers and doctors, even.

If we get so dependent on the automation and it fails how will anyone be able to fix it.

There will naturally be a class of workers who designs and maintains these systems. It's already here - because modern automation also breaks and needs to be fixed. The problem is that this is a smaller class of workers than one being displaced - that is efficiency.

Terrible idea, Hawaii is so out of touch with reality it's laughable.

Not necessarily. In fact, something along these lines is becoming more and more probable as the only sane way to tackle he future. Early tests in Finland seem to be going well.

Socialclutz · 36-40, M

@sogdianrock @QuixoticSoul not every one is capable of being an engineer plain and simple. Not every one wants to give up their line of work.

sogdianrock · 61-69, M

hi Socialclutz ·
Oh I agree change is hell but it is not a choice however. The future is another country: another World even. Look at what has happened in the past 200 years! Progress now will be exponential. Take the money!
Best wishes
:)

Socialclutz · 36-40, M

Fuck the money

QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M

@Socialclutz I'm an engineer - with a cybernetics background, even. I know full well not everyone is cut out for this line of work.

But we're talking about market forces here, and downright unstoppable ones. As technology goes on, certain professions become obsolete or restricted. This happened from the very start of industrialization - the original 18th century luddites were weavers who were concerned that machines would replace them, and render the skills they spent a lifetime developing useless.

And they were right, of course. And this story has repeated itself over and over.

What we're looking at right now is not new, and we understand exactly how this will go on. Problem is, we're also looking at something faster and more comprehensive than what happened before, without enough time for the marketplace to absorb and retrain the people being displaced - if indeed there is even room enough for all of them in the coming more automated economy. And it's a cascading effect. People in the service industry need someone to serve. Entrepreneurs need someone to sell to. When a large segment of the population gets knocked out of work, everyone else suffers along with them. Universal income is one solution to keep the economic engine going - and just might be the best looking one right now.

Socialclutz · 36-40, M

Think I'll drop off the grid. I really don't want to be part of that crap

QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M

@Socialclutz Not everyone is cut out for that either. And it's not a solution for the rest of us who would like to see global civilization going - and perhaps even flourish.

Ironically, a Basic Income system will make it easier for you to drop off the grid too. No man is an island - you'll still need things.

sogdianrock · 61-69, M

hi QuixoticSoul
It is the same problem as climate change denial imho. I am also interested in the psychology of technological/ social change denial. The alternative to Universal Credit is revolution and there are a lot of guns in The US.
Best wishes
:)

Socialclutz · 36-40, M

I'm sorry, I don't understand, did you say further technicolochal advancement in the form automation where ppl lose their jobs is a good thing to allow the population to flourish? 7.5 billion humans on this world and the human population isn't "flourishing". You like every one else who wants this automation technology truly do just want power, and/or handouts from the government. Just remember anything the government gives it can and will take away. I will never accept this bullshit

QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M

@Socialclutz Technology advancement is a thing. It's not necessarily good or bad. It just is. You can't put the genie back in the bottle, and ultimately efficiency is its own good. Nobody wants to go back to weaving stuff by hand, after all.

But these kinds of transitions can be dangerous if not managed correctly.