Political debate has been dead for a long time, at least in the United States. I can't speak for countries I don't currently live in, but having resided in a number of nations in my lifetime, I can say that debate certainly is still prominent in other places. But here in the US where I live at the moment, debate has been long dead since virtually none of the politicians in power actually stand on principle. It isn't like the republicans all have a common ideology or set of principles or beliefs that they all share, nor do the democrats. They serve their donors. They're corporatists. A democrat won't care if they push for legislature that is un-democratic, or a republican doing the same for non-republican traits. So long as they get their money from the corporations who fund them, they will do whatever they are told.
@BlueMetalChick What I see now in American politics is what I have seen in my country (Spain) for many years, but taken to the extreme. I think this is the logical aftermath of bipartisanism. When people with very diverse social, political and economical views are forced to stay together under the democrat or republican umbrella, labelling is the only way to tell them one from another
@Cierzo It is the result of two things, one of them being the two-party system like you said, and the other being money in politics. The republican-democrat rivalry is like Coca-Cola vs. Pepsi. They're seen as opposites, you have to choose one, they're enemies. But they're still both sugary cola flavored soda pops that are fizzy and come in cans and bottles. You see my point?
And so long as politicians can be swayed by donors, corporate backing, and wealthy parties, they will continue to serve the people who give them that money instead of the people who elect them.
@BlueMetalChick I see your point and agree. And the same happens to media. Those who own them are who are really speaking through the mouths and pens of journalists
Most folks aren't set up for a real political debate beyond what an echo chamber has told them. They're too busy working and doing everything else in life to keep up with what's actually going on beneath the surface. And that's how politicos like it. When a leader has to answer to a democracy, it's best if those constituents are relatively easy to manipulate. Rationale takes a lot of time and effort to explain and persuade people, slogans and emotional rhetoric are always readily available. Confusion is also great for politicos, when it's not clear what's going on, and nobody knows who to blame, it's easier to get away with things. The system offers the illusion of debate and of choice, when really most decisions are still being made by the wealthy and the political elites. Democracy is just the battle ground they've chosen on which to spar.
@Alexa93xxx Uh, yeah, you definitely do see that in the media. Look at Fox News. Kennedy and Greg Gutfeld were saying anyone who believes in diplomacy, as in, you know...talking to another nation's leaders instead of going to war with them, is a communist. Eric Bolling referred to any for of healthcare as socialism. He went on to say Obamacare is the equivalent of "Stalincare and Maocare and Hitlercare." Michael Savage claims that affordable college is a "pinko commie utopian dream for lazy stoners." Limbaugh on the Blaze has been blasting his mouth all over the place about how keeping public schooling secular is the path to turning into East Germany.
@Alexa93xxx Despite that I named three different channels? Fox, the Blaze, and CTR. That isn't one channel.
Antifa are annoyances at best and malicious at worst. Their name stands for "anti fascist" which I wholeheartedly agree with, I hate fascism too. But what the hell is it doing to oppose fascism by throwing rocks and glass bottles at Milo Yianoppolous (however his name is spelled) or setting garbage cans on fire at fucking Berkeley? They're defeating their own purpose. How is attacking people and breaking shit being a hero?
Right now a huge segment of the population in the USA is dealing with the aftermath of a record-setting flood/hurricane and another hurricane may hit the eastern coast-Florida region. People from all ethnic groups, races, faiths and political ideologies are working together to help each other in the rescue and clean-up. Maybe that's why there's not much in regard to debates going on. One liberal here tried to goad me into a debate yesterday after I commented about a cat photo that was posted...shameful. Charlie Hebdo posted cartoons portraying Houston residents as Nazis as though they were getting paid-back for supporting Trump...Houston is a melting pot, as you can see from this clip I am posting.
This clip doesn't even reflect the percentage of foreigners living in Houston, as many of the petroleum engineers are from other countries. I only wish the rest of the world could see the spirit of cooperation among the diversified population as far as the rescue efforts, the assistance people are getting in shelters and clean-up, donations, etc. I think any of us who are willing to help or donate don't care which ethnic group, religion,etc. we are helping, people need help seriously. Maybe disasters are one way for people to put things into the proper perspective. Even the media has mentioned this last night, and I hope they are learning a lesson too.
I think the clearest problem there is at the moment is that there are lots of 'professional politicians' and no aspiring sociological thinkers who want to change the world. The media argument is bogus. Fewer people than ever read newspapers, so they don't have the influence they used to. Fewer folk than ever watch tv news. Primarily because we all work shifts across a 24 hour pattern. So nobody settles in to watch the evening news anymore.
The rise of right-wing rhetoric has seen the likes of Breitbart come to the fore. As has the revitalisation of oldies like Rush Limbaugh and Fox news. And it's quite disturbing just how many 20+ers like to quote one or the other when making a political point on any form of social media.
It's never good when countries make massive lurches politically either left or right. And at the moment i don't think anyone is convinced of either ! It's just that conservatives/Republicans/Nationalists have all won recent elections around the world spreading 'the word' that there's fear and uncertainty everywhere so....'you better vote for us or you're probably a traitor to your own.
@Cierzo My point was that nobody will care about a rise from the left. Since the death of communism, what's the worst you can be called ?...Oh yeah ! A Libtard ! But when there's a rise in more extreme forms of right wing thinking, then you have problems !
@Picklebobble2 I think both communism and fascism had their place in history and are dead now. Calling someone a communist or a fascist is an easy way to despise their speech and refuse to argue with them.
What I am afraid of are smiley dictatorships, those who do not wear boots or uniforms, but are accepted by the population.. Dictatorships disguised under phrases like 'progress cannot be stopped', or 'our security demands that...'The perfect dictatorships happens when people do not realise they are living in one.
It seems that way. I have disagreed with Obama and Trump (not equally) and have endured the wrath from both sides. These politicians are flawed beings - with an agenda - yet their camps are too busy worshiping at their alters to see truth from fantasy.
I think the better question would be ... Are critical thinking skills dead?
The opposing view cannot JUST BE "Trump is an evildoer".
SW-User
One of the main problems is that in order to have political debate, both sides have to have a fairly solid grasp of the concepts involved. Too many on here act as political surrogates, simply parroting what they and their fellows [i]want[/i] to be true.
Another problem, certainly for us in the U.S., is that the drive to win, to be right, to take top spot is more important than listening to other opinions. We measure success by bigger, faster, stronger, more. That trickles down to the street level, where everyone wants to be the champion of the playground. That we have a leader who epitomizes that attitude to a pathological degree doesn't help.
Lastly, the media isn't helping anyone. They still report facts (hard to argue with video taped quotes), but they have become openly biased and proud. That hurts both sides.
Things are partisan and America seems especially partisan. Yes social media has a big effect.
I think it's important to at least understand your opponents arguments. I read more leftist sources but also access liberal and right wing media at times.
Yeah, I try to have friendly discussions instead of heated arguments cause no one can learn anything when everyone is angry.
It's difficult when people are extremely rude to me and/or show absolutely no desire to amend their opinion in the face of truth, but I try.
SW-User
From a height, i bet, [i]even[/i] this is hilarious, "look at them go", one can muse to him or herself, "like their all reading from their own inner tele-prompters."
