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Does Anyone Know The Flat-Earth "Conspiracy"?

TBLman has posted umpteen threads here asserting that the Earth is a flat disc stationary in Space, with no gravity, and the other celestial bodies (presumably) orbiting it.

He has not invented this. So don't blame him.

There are assorted videos, blogs or whatever on t'Net pushing the idea as dogma that Shall Not Be Questioned, and he's apparently gained his ideas from these. They can be nasty, the people making these, too; calling anyone who questions them, a liar or an idiot; or using a trick common in the form of domestic abuse called in law, "coercive & controlling behaviour"..

Their common theme is that only they are telling the truth and we have all been taught a gigantic lie about spherical planets and the heliocentric, Solar System... but why would we be; and by whom?

The geocentric model was pushed for centuries by the Church, for their power; but ironically it was a model devised by a pagan (in their eyes) - the pre-Christian, non-Jewish Classical Greek, Aristotle, whose own religion was of a soap-opera pantheon. Its attraction was of simple arrogance, placing Man (literally and figuratively, 'man') at the centre of the Universe. Eventually the Church of Rome conceded Galileo and his contemporaries were right, though it took it 400 years to swallow its pride and apologise to their memories. The Vatican even has it own observatory now.

In FE-ist eyes, the heliocentric and gravity model is heresy, designed as part of, or supporting a mysterious "conspiracy"; but a conspiracy of what? Not itself because that would gain nothing for the conspirators - apart from ridicule.

TBLman told me the conspiracy is extremely complicated, but not what it is, suggesting as many explanations as adherents. It would have to be complicated to have originated in centuries past, yet still be maintained around the world even today; with no evident purpose or beneficiaries.

(As guide to age, Renaissance paintings sometime show globes. These were mapped, though not ever so accurately, by the early mariners who set forth from European countries to "discover new" lands... usually so their own countries could conquer them.)

One present-day example is a certain Eric Dubay, a yoga instructor, who calls his version "The Atlantean Conspiracy". At least he is civil about it, but his long list of images and short texts to show only his basic lack of geographical or simple physics, knowledge.

A 19C example was a grocer, later hotelier, falsely pretending to be a "professor", in the Dakota spa-town of Hot Springs. I'd name him but, sorry, I have lost the reference. His very strange model depicted the known world as not itself flat, but as a toroidal dish, like a roulette wheel, in the middle of a huge, square slab of rock. He did not seem to pretend any conspiracies but claimed Biblical "proof", and made money from selling his pamphlets about it! There is a Wikipedia entry about him, with a facsimile of his cod-Renaissance drawing of Planet Roulette-wheel.

''''

So probably no single, cohesive, coherent FE model, and probably no single, coherent "conspiracy"..

Yet they go to such lengths to call all the rest of us, fools and liars!

The supreme irony of these anti-science types though, is that they use the Internet to push it.
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Rickichickie · 61-69, F
You opened a can of worms here! 😂
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Rickichickie Indeed! I was trying to get to the bottom of why people believe in such things. You need know what the belief itself says, but that was not really my question.

Flat-Earthery is not itself a problem, just eccentric; but it does come wrapped in a conspiracy-fantasy shroud, and that shows the real danger: zealotry and gullibility.
Rickichickie · 61-69, F
@ArishMell sadly I have a dear friend, the one from my featured story who is into conspiracies. I found out when the pandemic befell us. Until then I thought that he was an intelligent and nice man but then he showed his true colours.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Rickichickie One of my nephews denied the pandemic. "Not in my house you don't!", his Mum told him, when he visited her. I lost my longest-standing friend to Covid, though he was already very frail, and it would be easy for me to hate the pro-pandemic crowd.

However, but I reflected most of them including probably my nephew, somehow just do not see they are being hoodwinked by the real enemies - those who invent and push dangerous conspiracy "theories" that are not even hypotheses for personal monetary, political or just ego, rewards.

Flat-Earthery itself is harmless, the sort of belief based on missing the logical, known and even mundane in favour of the illogical but vaguely exciting. This not new: think of Erik von Daniken's books. Or the 19C Cottingley Fairies, a practical joke that lost control. It does though feed on spreading gullibility even among intelligent, educated people. How do such people, like your friend and my nephew, become trapped in conspiracy-fantasies?

One of the presentations to which TBLman directed me, uses two methods; both cruel. One is outright manipulation, in that case of a very elderly lady by an extremely creepy man most people, men as well as women, would probably mistrust instinctively from the start. The other trick is typical among what UK Law calls "coercive and controlling behaviour", to stealthily and systematically destroy the victim's own self-confidence, learning, sense and certainty. Although that particular video is too poorly-made for stealth and system, if you know of such tricks they can spotted and avoided.

I am sorry about your friend. I expect he is still nice really, and is still intelligent even if he talks nonsense sometimes, but people bitten by a conspiracy-belief seem to find it very hard to recover; and the more you try to help them, the more they dig in.
Rickichickie · 61-69, F
@ArishMell Oh yes, the Däniken books. I never read one but found this mind wizard intriguing. I also remember dodgy magazines about aliens, ufos and such I never bought either.
Trying to convince a conspiracist is probably impossible and I didn’t try, just avoided the topic. Our friendship cooled a bit off in the course which is sad.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Rickichickie I've only read parts of Daniken's writings, but I know others have studied the things he did, properly; including talking to the locals..

Daniken did not even visit some of the sites he wrote about!

A couple of years or so ago I heard an intriguing radio programme about the so-called 'Bermuda Triangle'. The major "disappearances" were all properly investigated; but if the reports were published it's unlikely many outside of the industries concerned read them.

The common threads included poor maintenance, neglect, negligence, wrong-doing (occasionally), incompetence and simple human errors. The last bears some thinking about because it can include disorientation, confusion about what is visible or not, utter loss of concentration, and unshakeable beliefs in one's own misjudgement or that of others. These will be worsened by fear making it hard to think straight. Obviously we cannot say that of all those who died in the ocean there, but can gain fair estimations from putting experiences from survivors of other incidents into context.

I forget the journalists' name but he ended by saying he'd collated it all into a book, but publishers rejected it because they thought the "general public" are only interested in mystery and sensation, not mundane truth!

All you can do with a conspiracist is nod politely and hope he eventually realises he's on the wrong track! It's not a problem if the "conspiracy" is harmless like the one saying we all have been lied to about the Earth's shape. The problems occur when they are pushing something they may or may not know themselves is wrong, but could have very harmful effects.

I hope your friend and you can re-warm the friendship.
Rickichickie · 61-69, F
@ArishMell I guess that most people rather would like to stick to fantasy and mystery. It’s far more appealing than the sober truth.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Rickichickie Whether "most" or not I cannot say, but I agree fully with the fantasy rather then truth aspect.

There is a big difference between mystery and fantasy of course.

A mystery is simply something not yet explained or understood, but it can be real. For example, gravity is certainly real by everyday experience and its numerical effects are measurable by quite simple experiments, but its true nature, or cause, is still something of a quantum-physics mystery.

A fantasy is simply made up from nothing or from ancient myths, like unicorns, flat planets and Wagner's The Ring of the Niebelung. (I am not a great opera fan but that is my favourite!) Or as fiction about real things and people, like Daniken's hoaxes, or Netflix's deliberately false biographies of the UK's Royal Family.

They can be both. Agatha Christy's famous series of respectable murders are all fantasies written as mysteries for the reader as well as the characters to try to solve,


A fantasy is more or less harmless if it affects no-one in a bad way. Fairies, New-Age mystical tat and Flat-Earthery come into that category.

The harm comes when it leads words or actions designed to exploit, influence or harm others; and can be extremely cowardly. Alex Jones is a prime example. Another is Qanon; which was blown into the open by a political-party activist called Tracy Beans [real surname Diaz] and others, to use for campaigning by destruction rather than reason.

~~~~~

A very contemporay note......

I am writing this with the radio on, and at the moment, the 6th part of Marianna Spring's expose and investigation of "Disaster Trolls" has just started.

Her prime example of these exploitative conspiracy-sellers is of Richard Hall, the British equivalent of Alex Jones in making money from calling the 2017 bomb attack on the Manchester Arena all a stage-managed hoax. Twenty-two died, many more were injured, some disabled.

Hall's tactics include physically stalking survivors to try to "prove" them liars; and building a tacky fan-club harassing the survivors and bereaved by Internet. If he discovers the results of the injuries are real and visible, he alleges they pre-date the attack.

As with Jones, Hall's victims are now fighting back by investigating obtaining legal redress against the coward.
Rickichickie · 61-69, F
@ArishMell depends on if he finally accepts that I don’t fall for conspiracies.
He can’t convince me and calling me names doesn’t help with it.

I don’t understand why people destroy the life of others. It seems to me that it’s out of sheer evilness.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Rickichickie He won't call you names unless you try to argue with him too hard.
Rickichickie · 61-69, F
@ArishMell I beg to differ. I never tried to convince him, it was the other way around.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Rickichickie Oh, I didn't say you'd tried it! :-)

No, you can never convince anyone entrapped by cults and conspiracies.
Rickichickie · 61-69, F
@ArishMell it would be utter foolishness to even try!
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Rickichickie There are far worse fantasies and conspiracy ideas on the Internet than these ones.