Trump disbanded Obama's cabinet level pandemic office, and then when Covid came along he told us five weeks of lies
All through Trump's term, our Covid per capita death rate was DOUBLE that of countries like Canada & Germany, resulting in about 550,000 Covid deaths under Trump.
If Trump had handled Covid as well as, say, Justin Trudeau, we'd have had 275,000 FEWER DEATHS! Put another way, Trump's mis-management of Covid cost more deaths than THREE Viet Nam wars!! Three Viet Nams in a SINGLE YEAR, not spread out over ten years like the actual war!!!
Sure, Covid came from outside. And different leaders in different countries managed it differently. Trump's piss-poor Covid management is made clear by the relative per capita death rates.
"I look at it this way," Birx told CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent Sanjay Gupta. "The first time, we have an excuse. There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge. All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially."
@DanielsASJ It was the exact opposite. People still died of the causes they usually did, with covid-19 imposing additional deaths. In fact, the number of Covid deaths are under-reported, since deaths in all reported categories increased.
@DanielsASJ We are saying the same thing. People died of the same causes they normally did, and additional people died of Covid. And there were other excess deaths reported in the typical categories that are almost certainly attributable to Covid. @ElwoodBlues showed the data.
@DanielsASJ Did you miss the table I posted of US death numbers for the top ten causes of death for six years ending in 2020, or did you just misunderstand it??
The table says 500,000 excess deaths above baseline, of which 345,000 were classified as Covid. Thus (doing the math) 155,000 excess deaths weren't classified as Covid.
My comments addressed the fact that almost all causes of death rose in 2020, thus disproving your claim "Surprisingly, other causes of death disappeared during that year."
Meanwhile, @windinhishair's comments addressed the 155,000 other excess deaths; suggesting that some of them could have been caused by Covid but misclassified.
See how that works, @DanielsASJ?? The two of us addressed two different (overlapping) sets of excess deaths in 2020. And, regardless, your claim has been proven false by the data.
As @windinhishair sighted that the data is highly manipulated and you are putting graphs and curves in here like a true government clerk.
My point was "[b][b]
[center][big]WHY ARE YOU EVEN PRESENTING A DATA THAT IS FAKE" [/big]
[/center][/b][/b] I can share with you a live recording of nurses who had to certify that a number of patients at their hospital died of certain other disease and they had to label cause as COVID because hospitals were getting huge money.
I hope you don't share fake things on the fake post along with your fake mate from now onwards. Yes, you are absolutely FAKE
@DanielsASJ The data isn't fake, and it isn't manipulated. I stand by what @ElwoodBlues reported, and have seen and used the same data set. Something similar happened with the Swine Flu in 2009, where later review of all the data together resulted in the number of deaths due to that flu virus being revised upwards. You probably remember that, because it was used to attack Obama for failing to protect American lives. Then when Trump badly bungled Covid to the tune of many hundreds of thousands of deaths, those attacks stopped.
Graphs and curves are used because they are an easier way for some people to visualize the data. If you would rather use the raw data tables, you are free to do that as well to observe the real phenomena that have been properly stated and contextualized.
You do know the statements of one or a couple of nurses at a particular hospital doesn't change what the data clearly indicate, right?
@windinhishair You both are contradictory to each other and yet go hand in hand. Let me ask you two again - 1) Is this data fake? 2) Is it manipulated?
@windinhishair As far as my common sense and a few facts claims -
1) Hospitals were full up to the brim. 2) people were not getting the urgent medical facilities contained by Covid
3) This should lead to a sharp rise in fatality due to other causes.
4) But it doesn't appear to be the case here where numbers were in line with previous year numbers.
Which suggests that - patients dying of other causes were enrolled to increase number of Covid deaths. It falls in line with claim of several nurses working in hospital on the scale that of a battlefield.
But maybe common sense is not so common. What do you think?
@DanielsASJ We are not contradicting each other. You are somehow misunderstanding what the data show. How many times do I have to say that the government data is neither fake nor manipulated?
Your scenario of hospitals being overwhelmed, resulting in the mis-classification of causes of deaths, is potentially plausible early on in the pandemic, for a short period of time, when no one knew how to deal with the novel coronavirus. It defies common sense later on as hospitals adjusted to dealing with the pandemic, and people were receiving medical care routinely for other ailments. And when you look at the data in aggregate, it shows the opposite of what you stated, that other causes of death decreased. In fact, they increased according to the reported data. The most logical explanation, based on common sense, is that Covid deaths were actually under-reported for the time period. As I referred to earlier, epidemiologists always go back and review the data after the fact, just as they did during the 2009 Swine Flu, to determine what the true number of Covid deaths were. And those reviews are no doubt still ongoing. If Covid did cause a real increase in other causes of death, that will be determined as well.
Anecdotal evidence from an extremely small and insignificant data set doesn't override the entire data set. That's like polling ten people at random, having eight of them say they will vote for Trump, and then believing that Trump will win 80% of the vote in a landslide.
@DanielsASJ No. Your continued lack of ability to understand clear data and commentary is very concerning. You should just give up and believe whatever wacky conspiracy theory you hear on right-wing media, sans facts.
@DanielsASJ No. The data are official government data. There are excess deaths beyond those reported as Covid deaths. The most reasonable explanation is that Covid deaths are actually under-reported, though this hasn't been officially determined. It has nothing to do with fake data.
There was no fabrication of data during either Obama's or Biden's terms in office. And you have apparently forgotten, or chosen to ignore, that Trump was president during the initiation of Covid and for much of the data shown.
