Which U.S. president of the last few decades attended church the most?

@Bumbles I’m afraid they would crucify him all over again honestly.

@JustGoneNow I think it was in Hannah and Her Sisters where Max von Sydow says "If Jesus came back and saw what's going on in his name, he'd never stop throwing up."

@LeopoldBloom I struggle not to. Their Jesus and mine are very different it seems. 😞

https://similarworlds.com/poetry/writing/poet/4611028-you-follow-your-own-Jesus-you-say-that-youre-a-Christian-but

@JustGoneNow Exactly.

@Bumbles A video about exactly that topic came up in my YouTube feed this morning.

[media=https://youtu.be/OzZv7rPSoD0]

@ElwoodBlues 💯. My favorite song growing up as a young Catholic girl was they will know we are Christians by our love. Lately, I don’t see so much love from those claiming they are Christians. js

@ShadowSister That's brilliant.

@ShadowSister That was an insane 10 minutes. Well worth watching. It’s always amazed me how many Christians today, completely disregard Jesus’s words and message and instead try to misinterpret Old Testament to make it say something it doesn’t about LGBTQ folks. I’ve had the discussion with many before that it’s not at all clear that any part of the Bible condemns a consenting loving committed and most importantly monogamous LGBTQ relationship… and you really have to fully misinterpret the texts and the scripture to even try and make it say that at all.

@ShadowSister 🖤

https://similarworlds.com/christianity/bible/4674645-The-Bible-does-not-forbid-gay-sex-unless-you-mistranslate-it

@JustGoneNow I like Leopold. This is new information, I've never read this particular argument before. I took my Hebrew, I should probably go open up my Hebrew Bible and follow along with his argument. That's a lot of work though lol. He doesn't address the verses from the New Testament. I would argue that Paul is implicitly referencing these verses from Leviticus though. So Leopold's interpretation would be relevant on those passages as well.

Either way, Jesus had a lot to say about a lot of topics, but homosexuality was not one of them.

@ShadowSister most of the “gay sex” referenced was more about orgies in temples and with young male minors. There’s a good argument to make that it was not at all about a consenting, committed, and monogamous same sex relationship between adults. Much of straight sex when it comes to non consent and orgy or prostitution is forbidden as well, so it’s at best very unclear if it’s really just about the gay part from the original written languages.

@ShadowSister and that absolutely includes the New Testament.

@ShadowSister I find a lot of Paul’s letters to be sort of problematic for other reasons and give them much less credence personally, but that’s a different conversation. It’s hard for me to give huge credence to a man that never met Jesus even once and had his supposed conversion from being a Roman tax collector as he had supposedly had some vision from God or Jesus on the road to Damascus. I find it very hard to give him the same level as gospels that actually quote Jesus and if not written directly by the apostle named… very well may have been someone of the clergy that had heard them preach of Jesus first hand. Especially as rules heavy as the Letters of Paul are and some of his more problematic stances on stuff. Just my thoughts.

@ShadowSister And Leopold is one of my favorite people here. He doesn’t judge me for my beliefs and I don’t judge him for his. We see eye to eye on so much and even when I don’t completely agree with his stance on something I do respect his opinion and often find some merit in his argument. He’s actually swayed me a bit from my starting point on a few things. He’s quite intelligent and fun to debate with as it never feels like an argument, merely a discussion from people that have different views.

@JustGoneNow Paul's letters shouldn't be part of the Bible. They should be like the Talmud in Judaism or the Hadith in Islam - supplementary to holy writ but not part of it.

@LeopoldBloom As often with you… I 💯 agree.

@LeopoldBloom I tried for a very long time to hold on to some sense of religion as I was leaving conservative Evangelicalism. If I was still there, I would argue that in Christian theology, the whole of the Bible should occupy a place like the Talmud. Jesus alone should occupy that place of authority where many put the Bible.

I have a ton of respect for Paul as a thinker. The man was brilliant. But that doesn't mean he wasn't problematic af. I think the three of us are agreed on that point.

Honestly, my biggest issue with my old Christian faith is that I now see that it was deeply patriarchal through and through. A male warrior god, with a male savior son, and the Holy Spirit, who is usually also depicted as male. Plus a hegemony of male leadership from beginning to end, with a very, very few female exceptions that prove the rule. The author who opened my eyes to this was Mary Daly.

I have a ton of respect for Daly as a thinker. The woman was brilliant. Of course, that doesn't mean she wasn't also problematic af on other issues.

@ShadowSister it’s my faith, my wonderful friend. Problematic as fuck as it is… I take what I need and leave the rest. There’s a beauty too and it gives me comfort, but I don’t let people have it dictate bigotry of any kind to me. That’s the part I don’t need, and have no time for. Love your neighbor, that speaks to me. I just follow my own Jesus that happens to be exactly his words.

@JustGoneNow I know. I envy that. I never wanted to lose the spirituality I had. But once I started on the trajectory out, I didn't have any way to put on the breaks. Now I'm stuck on the outside and religion doesn't feel as lifegiving as it used to. But I remember when it did, and it was amazing. Maybe I will get that back again some day. We are all on our own journeys. I am happy for where you are in your journey of spirituality.

@ShadowSister yes ma’am. 🖤

https://similarworlds.com/poetry/writing/poet/4611028-you-follow-your-own-Jesus-you-say-that-youre-a-Christian-but

@ShadowSister I love you, my friend.

[media=https://youtu.be/nSjkJiuCaVI]

@JustGoneNow I love you too, my friend. Also, that's a fabulous song. I would never get tired of those modern catholic hymns!

@ShadowSister I agree with Nietzsche about Paul. By jettisoning the Jewish basis for Christianity and making it solely about faith in Jesus, he allowed it to spread across the world, which it wouldn't have done if the James faction had won out and prospective Christians were first required to convert to Judaism. We literally call modern Christianity "Pauline Christianity" because that's the faction that survived. Unfortunately, at the cost of Gnosticism and other lost forms.

@LeopoldBloom I would have made a good Gnostic, sir.