Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »

I Want To Talk About 911 [September 11 Attacks - 9/11]

Who here believes the official narrative of 9/11? Who still believes that aviation fuel is able to melt steel? Who still denies the existence of a sequence of explosions in both towers? And how many don't even know about Building 7, which the BBC broadcast had collapsed 20 minutes BEFORE it came down. Who still believes that rat faced Silverstein when he said "I told the fire brigade to pull the building after such horrific loss of life". As if a controlled demolition could be set up in a matter of hours... 🤔
Top | New | Old
MrBrownstone · 46-50, M
On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters directed by a man on dialysis in a cave fortress halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop directed the most sophisticated penetration of the most heavily-defended airspace in the world, overpowering the passengers and the military combat-trained pilots on 4 commercial aircraft before flying those planes wildly off course for over an hour without being molested by a single fighter interceptor.

These 19 hijackers, devout religious fundamentalists who liked to drink alcohol, snort cocaine, and live with pink-haired strippers, managed to knock down 3 buildings with 2 planes in New York, while in Washington a pilot who couldn’t handle a single engine Cessna was able to fly a 757 in an 8,000 foot descending 270 degree corskscrew turn to come exactly level with the ground, hitting the Pentagon in the budget analyst office where DoD staffers were working on the mystery of the 2.3 trillion dollars that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had announced “missing” from the Pentagon’s coffers in a press conference the day before, on September 10, 2001.

Luckily, the news anchors knew who did it within minutes, the pundits knew within hours, the Administration knew within the day, and the evidence literally fell into the FBI’s lap. But for some reason a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists demanded an investigation into the greatest attack on American soil in history.

The investigation was delayed, underfunded, set up to fail, a conflict of interest and a cover up from start to finish. It was based on testimony extracted through torture, the records of which were destroyed. It failed to mention the existence of WTC7, Able Danger, Ptech, Sibel Edmonds, OBL and the CIA, and the drills of hijacked aircraft being flown into buildings that were being simulated at the precise same time that those events were actually happening. It was lied to by the Pentagon, the CIA, the Bush Administration and as for Bush and Cheney…well, no one knows what they told it because they testified in secret, off the record, not under oath and behind closed doors. It didn’t bother to look at who funded the attacks because that question is of “little practical significance“. Still, the 9/11 Commission did brilliantly, answering all of the questions the public had (except most of the victims’ family members’ questions) and pinned blame on all the people responsible (although no one so much as lost their job), determining the attacks were “a failure of imagination” because “I don’t think anyone could envision flying airplanes into buildings ” except the Pentagon and FEMA and NORAD and the NRO.

The DIA destroyed 2.5 TB of data on Able Danger, but that’s OK because it probably wasn’t important.

The SEC destroyed their records on the investigation into the insider trading before the attacks, but that’s OK because destroying the records of the largest investigation in SEC history is just part of routine record keeping.

NIST has classified the data that they used for their model of WTC7’s collapse, but that’s OK because knowing how they made their model of that collapse would “jeopardize public safety“.

The FBI has argued that all material related to their investigation of 9/11 should be kept secret from the public, but that’s OK because the FBI probably has nothing to hide.

This man never existed, nor is anything he had to say worthy of your attention, and if you say otherwise you are a paranoid conspiracy theorist and deserve to be shunned by all of humanity. Likewise him, him, him, and her. (and her and her and him).

Osama Bin Laden lived in a cave fortress in the hills of Afghanistan, but somehow got away. Then he was hiding out in Tora Bora but somehow got away. Then he lived in Abottabad for years, taunting the most comprehensive intelligence dragnet employing the most sophisticated technology in the history of the world for 10 years, releasing video after video with complete impunity (and getting younger and younger as he did so), before finally being found in a daring SEAL team raid which wasn’t recorded on video, in which he didn’t resist or use his wife as a human shield, and in which these crack special forces operatives panicked and killed this unarmed man, supposedly the best source of intelligence about those dastardly terrorists on the planet. Then they dumped his body in the ocean before telling anyone about it. Then a couple dozen of that team’s members died in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.

This is the story of 9/11, brought to you by the media which told you the hard truths about JFK and incubator babies and mobile production facilities and the rescue of Jessica Lynch.

If you have any questions about this story…you are a batshit, paranoid, tinfoil, dog-abusing baby-hater and will be reviled by everyone. If you love your country and/or freedom, happiness, rainbows, rock and roll, puppy dogs, apple pie and your grandma, you will never ever express doubts about any part of this story to anyone. Ever.

This has been a public service announcement by: the Friends of the FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA, SEC, MSM, White House, NIST, and the 9/11 Commission. Because Ignorance is Strength.
KatyB · F
@MrBrownstone By heck, you type fast!!! 🤣🤣

Well call me a batshit, paranoid, tinfoil hat wearing, dog abusing, baby hater. Add in unicorn murderer for good measure!!
MrBrownstone · 46-50, M
@KatyB I copy and pasted from my post.
KatyB · F
@MrBrownstone 🤣🤣🤣
Aye, I've heard that somewhere before. Well funny.
DownTheStreet · 56-60, M
I think a group of terrorists leveraged a weak TSA protocol, hijacked aircraft, ans crashed two of them into the twin towers. Nothing about two large aircraft causing a massive fire that led to the buildings’ collapse is remotely mysterious to me.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@samueltyler2

I think the need to defer until it's too late is pretty universal.

Putting myself in those pilot shoes, I have trouble believing that they all would have unlocked the door based on threats to kill the passengers or cabin crew members. Just the threat of such and the pilots would have likely first have singled the air traffic controller, one way or another, that something very serious was up, and immediately initiated actions to land someplace, anyplace.

I don't know how the 767 cockpit doors then worked, but as I remember 707/727/737 from my generation, cockpit doors had keys, much like the front door on most houses. While they could be opened and closed from inside the cockpits, they could also be unlocked from the cabin side with a key.

Since there seems to be no reports about the pilots singling that the flight was in trouble, it would seem that both pilots were overwhelmed within one or two seconds after the terrorist gained entry to the cockpit.

I would imagine that forensic evidence would help answer many of such unknowns, but I have to also assume that the intense impact and heat destroyed much of the evidence. Enumerating the possibilities isn't the same as manufacturing conspiracy theories. One possibility is that the terrorist had keys to the cockpits.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@Heartlander I remember that when travelling with our kids, they were often invited into the cockpit, even during a flight. I do not recall any keys ever being used to open the door, if there was any form of lock, it would have been like a bolt lock inside the door, but I doubt that as well. I also don't remember having a crew member sit in the cockpit when a member of the crew left and a crew member standing at the cockpit door during that time. I think things were very lax before 911. No one imagine such a scenario from happening. I was part of an anti-terrorism planning team after the first attempt on the trade center and before 911. They broke us up into small groups to plan on ways to harden any targets. The first thing the group was supposed to do was to pick a target. I convinced my group to choose the trade center in the opinion that, if I were a terrorist, i'd want to show everyone that even if I failed the first time, I would retry and succeed the next time. Everyone laughed and thought it funny. Of course, my opinion was somewhat based on the fact that the drawing on the cover of he manual for the meeting was a drawing of both towers with a gunsight over them! After 911 several of the people in my group emailed to ask if any black SUVs were parked outside of my home!

Thanks for hearting my drawings.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@samueltyler2 Cockpit arrangements went through a bit of transitions over the years. Except for the older DC9s and 737s, most arrangements were for a 3 man crew with one or two additional jump seats. Though the 737 was designed for a 2 man crew, some airlines continued to fly a 3rd flight-officer in the jump seat. So basically, the cockpit door knob was within reach of the 3rd flight deck officer, and in-flight, he/she handled the door which was kept locked in flight.

I'm thinking very early '70s or late '60s saw the end of passenger visits to the cockpit during flight. Then there was a sequence of regulation changes that restricted flight deck access and restricted flight officers from leaving their station.

Other than in-flight, though, on longer ground delays it was routine to open the cockpit doors and invite people to visit. It was a nice way to share with the passengers that the crew was helpless to do anything about weather or traffic delays. The longest I remember was like a 6 hour delay between push-back and take-off. It was one of the Air Traffic Controllers wildcat job actions. People were pissed and a "we're all in this together" posture probably prevented a mutiny.

The cockpit key wasn't a routine way to gain access to the cockpit, and only the pilots used it, or even knew about it. If the flight engineer left his/her station to get coffee or use the restroom, he'd/she'd lock the door behind him/her, get the coffee and use the key to regain entrance to the cockpit. The doorknob was beyond reach of the pilot and copilot. One key fit all the locks in the fleet, so it was common to just put the key on your keychain.

I think that Lufthansa suicide flight of a few years ago made a good case for the complexity of hardening the cockpit doors.

The other suicide flight, Air Egypt 990, I believe was a 767, and supposedly the captain was able to reenter the cockpit and fight with the relief officer. Too late, sadly. But that he got back into the cockpit suggests alternative ways to gain entry on 767s without being opened from inside the cockpit.

All the regulations about filling the cockpit seats or posting a guard at the door if one of the pilots had to go to the restroom came after 9/11.

A lot of the lax procedures leading up to 9/11 came with the crew reduction from 3 to 2. While the automation of systems may have made many of the flight engineer's duties unnecessary, there was a lot more to his/her role than managing/monitoring systems. An important role was that the flight engineer was also like the buffer between the two pilots in the seats and everything else. The buffer between the pilots flying and the cabin crew, the buffer between the two pilots and the company business, the crew member that coordinated with maintenance. In the cockpit, to even get to the pilots flying, you have to first climb over the flight engineer. But then, since the flight engineer didn't have to always look out the front windows, he/she could open the cockpit door face on.
Re: Steel. At 1000F Steel can expand up to 9 inches. Any steel trusses supporting floors and are subject to fire at temperatures of 1000F or higher, are very likely to fail. I was a firefighter for 33 years.
KatyB · F
@soar2newhighs Ok, but that would just be the affected few floors that were on fire, not the entire building. And assuming the jet fuel created temperatures higher than the 800F it burns at.....
The affected floors resulted in what's known as a "pancake" collapse. Personally I think there are too many unanswered questions about that day., and in no way showing any disrespect to you, I think it best if that subject be left alone for the time being. Fair enough?@KatyB
Pfuzylogic · M
The halting of all air flight wasn’t to protect the American people but rather to protect the Bin Laden family on their escape out since Bush 43 was beholden to his father for $60 million.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@Pfuzylogic Now THAT part I believe......
Pfuzylogic · M
@whowasthatmaskedman
Like our current party. Bush 43 considered the filthy rich and powerful to be his base no matter what their nationality was.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@Pfuzylogic Yes.. Our PM happened to be in the US at the time and was stuck there for days himself. While I could pick apart a lot of the conspiracy nonsense, as usual the bending of rules for the rich and power is something I see all the time. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
Jet fuel, (Jet A) is relatively tame as a liquid but becomes explosive when atomized.

A jet engine is basically a series of continuous controlled explosions where nozzles continuously ejects atomize fuel into combustion chambers where it continuously explodes.

Temperatures in the modern jet engine burn chambers can reach as high as 2,000 degrees C, accounting for why internal parts are made of titanium, and why jet engines look so big. The engine part is pretty small, the rest is ducting for cooling air that prevents the engine from melting.

The planes that hit the towers each carried about 20,000 gallons of Jet-A when they hit, which instantly atomized the fuel.

So basically the fuel didn't burn, it exploded with enough heat and energy to melt and bring down the buildings.

By comparison, Flight 800, the 747 that exploded shortly after departing from JFK, supposedly because an electrical spark ignited the fumes produced by just a few gallons of residual fuel in the basically empty center fuel tank.

There are still questions about whether the fuel vapors on Flt 800 were ignited by an electrical spark or a dud surface to air missile, but the consensus is that the exploding vapors in the center tank are what shredded the airplane.
lasergraph · 70-79, M
I can tell you this. I worked for a company that had a warehouse fire, back in 1980. It only was filled with paper goods and plastics, but it generated a fire hot enough to melt steel girders like butter. The building collapsed.

Imagine that scenario with the addition of hundreds of gallons of jet fuel.
SW-User
@lasergraph exactly!
KatyB · F
@lasergraph What temperature does structural steel melt at? What temperature does aviation fuel burn at? Think about that?
SW-User
@lasergraph warehouses use different support beams to 1300+ foot tall World Trade Center buildings. The density and solid strength is heavy
KatyB · F
@MrBrownstone Exactly! But so many dumb people on here who still buy the narrative though! You're clearly with me 👏 But so many need to be shot - save themselves lives of misery for being too thick to blink and breathe at the same time!! 🙄
This comment is hidden. Show Comment
I don't believe the official narrative of 9/11, nor did I ever. It would be like buying the Warren Commission Report as the truth behind the John Kennedy assassination. Total bullshit.
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@PhoenixPhail

There's still no definitive explanation about how they got into the cockpits.

Interestingly no 3rd crew members in any of cockpits. The hijackers would have tripped over him/her to get to the pilots. Did the hijackers know the jumpsuits would be empty?
@Heartlander You're presuming a LOT. How do you know there were even hijackers? Do you believe Oswald even knew they were going to kill Kennedy?
Heartlander · 80-89, M
@PhoenixPhail I believe the cockpit voice recorder for one of the aircraft was recovered and it helped substantiate the cockpit struggle. I believe it was heavily damaged. I believe one of the aircraft may also have had a hot mic for a while and some of the cockpit voices were picked up via the air traffic control frequencies.

There very probably are some recordings kept classified and undisclosed for a variety of reasons.

I've listened to a few real-time disaster recordings and have no objection about keeping them classified.
gregloa · 61-69, M
So who killed all those people and why?
NativeOregonian · 51-55
@KatyB The August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Brief. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB116/
KatyB · F
@NativeOregonian Aye, so they had a war games exercise on the same day, with the same attack method, on the same locations - yet Bush said "We could never have foreseen that would happen". Same as the 7/7 bombings here, a training exercise at the same locations for the same method, at the exact same time it happened. I call BS!
NativeOregonian · 51-55
@KatyB Yep, at the Air Force Base in Louisiana.

 
Post Comment