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Alberta Judge puts a freeze on a bill banning gender affirming care for Trans Youth.

Well done, Judge Kuntz.
Keep a minor's healthcare between them, their parents and their doctors. The government can piss right off 👏👏👏
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Bumbles · 51-55, M
I’m somewhat ambivalent about this issue to be honest.
Pikachu ·
@Bumbles

Care to elaborate?
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@Pikachu I don’t think the issue is simple, and I despise oversimplification (from the left or right).

For example, there is no evidence to support the idea that medical transition reduces adolescent suicide rates.

I don’t appreciate propaganda on social issues.
Pikachu ·
@Bumbles

There are indeed complexities associated with this issue but there is no oversimplification in the fact that a government has no place overruling the medical science and parental rights when it comes to a minor's healthcare.
Especially when their so-called attempts to "protect" trans youth are not applied equally to cis youth.

For example, there is no evidence to support the idea that medical transition reduces adolescent suicide rates.

I think you're wrong about that.
I don't care for propaganda either but i think the scientific consensus is rather clear on this issue.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1054139X21005681

https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(24)00439-7/fulltext


That aside, what are the issues you find hard to navigate when it comes to gender affirming care?
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@Pikachu I’m no so sure the government has zero role to play as I don’t consider this like any normal “healthcare,” which is another over simplification. I don’t trust a red state to get it right, though.

The person who argued the case before the Supreme Court conceded there was no evidence about suicide rates.

But consensus is not the same as evidence. And that consensus is surely politically influenced.

Even the term “gender affirming care” is a political statement and circular.

As I said, I’m ambivalent. On the whole I personally wound ban it. That being said, part of this is social contagion. It’s no coincidence that liberal celebrities keep having trans kids.
Pikachu ·
@Bumbles

I don’t consider this like any normal “healthcare,

Why?

The person who argued the case before the Supreme Court conceded there was no evidence about suicide rates.

I don't know who that person is but their inability to cite the science or ignorance thereof does not constitute a case closed, yes?
I gave you a few starter sources which challenge your perception that there is no evidence of the benefits of gender affirming care.
Did you take any time to examine them?

But consensus is not the same as evidence And that consensus is surely politically influenced.

The scientific consensus is based upon evidence and in many cases stands in defiance of the political influence.
For example, the case being referenced in this post. The Premier attempted to pass this legislation without and even in opposition to the best practices established by medical science.
Look up for yourself the best practice treatment of gender dysphoria.

Even the term “gender affirming care” is a political statement and circular.

How so?

That being said, part of this is social contagion

And that's why medical professionals should be in charge of assessing the situation, not people whose qualifications are "got people to vote for them", yes?
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@Pikachu I appreciate the response. I don’t trust MAGA on this issue, so we agree on that. It seems we wouldn’t find much common ground otherwise, but I do respect you are knowledgeable about the topic.
Pikachu ·
@Bumbles

I appreciate the respectful discourse here but let me offer you a suggestion:

If you think that i am knowledgeable about this subject then perhaps you should consider doing some more research into the subject yourself.
I have definitely only presented you with the basics of the issue and if you find that you're unfamiliar with them then it could be that your opinion requires more of a foundation.

Never stop learning.
Good luck.
Bumbles · 51-55, M
@Pikachu I’m definitely open to learning more. Thanks.
hartfire · 61-69
@Pikachu I looked up those PDF's you posted and read those reports.

They confirmed what I had anticipated from the perspective of basic psychology.

All humans have a profound social need to be accepted and included among their own family, tribe,community and culture, including extreme introverts or the most "antisocial" types.

If someone has never experienced generalised social rejection, they have no idea what it feels like, the hopelessness, shame, depression and suicidality that it induces. It does not matter what the issue is, the result is the same.

Intersex people are those born with any of several sex characteristics, including chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals that, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies".

Such people have always been born - for as long as humanity has existed - at roughly the same rate in most countries, and with much higher frequency on some Pacific Islands. Intersex variations are also common among mammals. All the traits any human (or animal) can have exist on a spectrum across a range that u. some are average and deemed "normal" while a small percentage, all exist on a spectrum that, on a statistical graph, normally looks like a bell-curve.
People cluster around the centre of the spectrum, making them "average" and societies tend to incorporate that into their norms and values. But a tiny proportion, usually around 1-3%, are born into the extremes of a spectrum that others may find hard to accept.
Except few people object to the geniuses that have helped us live better lives with their discoveries.

And yet I don't think 1-3% is that unusual: across a lifetime, or within any population, one is bound to have met and known these exceptional people - whether they revealed themselves and lived openly, or not.
I've known 7 male-to-females throughout their changes, and have known a couple of a-sexual men who were completely comfortable with their lack of libido: in fact, I'd say they were a good deal more content than most people with normal drives. That was back in my inner-city sculptor days when mixing in bohemian circles falt natural and normal. But even now, in my rural world, there are about 15% of the population who are overtly LGBTQI.

One cross-dresser left her home, wearing a pink tutu, ballet tights and slippers, in a large motorised metal dingy, in the midst of a major storm at 3 in the morning to rescue a family of 13 people who clung to their roof after their house had gone under-water, and succeeded. What matters to me is her character.

Only in recent decades that science has begun to understand gender variations. The rest of society is in varying stages of dealing with the shock to the preconcieved notions our societies have imposed on us.

We are no longer desert nomads warring with other tribes for the same over-grazed pastures. We no longer need to over-breed to compensate for the losses in childbirth, childhood and warfare.
We are literally over-populating the planet.

So there is no longer any reason to value family and heterosexuality as absolutes for survival of the tribe or species.
We can value families of all kinds for love, mutual support and nuturing future generations in hopefully smaller numbers.
But we can also value people who need to lead their lives differently, and who can still contribute and be loving and valuable members of our communities in countless ways.

The studies quoted by Pikachu show that the therapy usually results in much happier and more functional young people. And it seems the studies have found no adverse results.

I would say, if someone is born intersex, or differently oriented, or with a brain-gender different to their physical form -- a more subtle variation but still proven by the discovery of differing proportions of neurotransmitters (hormones) -- and they feel that becoming more like their inner gender would help them find self and social acceptance, then let them have the transition that hormone therapy now makes possible, and let it be on us to extend love and acceptance anyway.
Teh same if they choose to remain as they were born. There is no harm to anyone in either choice.

But there is great harm in not accepting a person as they are or as the person they choose to become.
Pikachu ·
@hartfire

Thanks for that assessment.
I find it so strange when people get stuck on ideology and would rather maintain their world view instead of accepting what best practices are in this case and how those result in better outcomes for the kids they're claiming to protect.
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
@Bumbles You should look up what they actually do for gender care instead of just assuming it's all about surgery and the like. People just assume too much. I'm not saying this as a judgement, I'm just stating it.