Positive
Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »

Let’s start a list of cities that have been ravaged by crime for decades and have been controlled by democrats for the same decades.

I’ll start:

Philadelphia
Chicago
San Francisco
Los Angeles
Minneapolis

Please continue ……
This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
Cool. Now list the rural areas that have been ravaged by crime and poverty and are controlled by Republicans.

The obsession conservatives have with cities as hotbeds of crime is weird. Crime is lower today than it was in the 1970s and 1980s when most of them were growing up. I think it's just reported more now. Back then, parents let their kids out in the morning and didn't see them until dinner, and nobody cared. Now you can't even leave your kids at the park without someone calling CPS on you.
IC many statements posing as facts with nothing to support them. Very helpful. Not. @LeopoldBloom
@jackjjackson You didn't cite any references to "cities ravaged by crime for decades," because you can't - crime has plummeted in the past few decades. Of course, this doesn't stop conservatives from bleating about "urban crime hellholes," and you're no exception.

https://slate.com/business/2022/10/republicans-cities-darren-bailey-jd-vance-tom-cotton-donald-trump.html

It's just a cheap ploy to play on conservatives' fears by getting them worked up over something else that isn't actually happening. What happened, you moved on from "our schools are installing litterboxes for the kids who identify as cats?"
I did not because the commenters on this thread provided a very good start to such a list. As usual you deliberately avoided the point. @LeopoldBloom
@jackjjackson I didn't ask for a list of cities, I meant a citation from a credible source showing "ravaged for decades."

Except crime really has gone down from where it was a few decades ago, after peaking in the early 1990s. But "crime" has always been a fertile topic for conservatives. It's a dog whistle for white people to remind them how frightened they should be of Black people. It's a "problem" that doesn't actually exist.

When you spout bullshit, you should include a citation if you don't want to be dismissed.
So you’re fine with the current amount of crime? @LeopoldBloom
@jackjjackson No, but at least I'm not lying about crime being "out of control" when the crime rate today is far lower than it was decades ago. I'm old enough to remember how people were afraid to walk across Central Park at night; there was even a comedy where some guy had to cross it multiple times for some reason and kept getting mugged by the same mugger. "You again?" Today New York City is one of the safest big cities in America.

I'm also concerned about the fact that the U.S. has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's prisoners. We incarcerate a larger percentage of our population than any other country on earth, including ones we would consider to be dictatorships. What's your solution - lock up even more people?
Scribbles · 36-40, F
@LeopoldBloom Well said!🙂
Some facts should help starting to set you straight:

https://www.statista.com/topics/780/crime/#topicHeader__wrapper

@LeopoldBloom
Scribbles · 36-40, F
@jackjjackson I'm curious which of those facts on statistica.com is contradicting Leopold's facts and setting it straight? I've taken a look at the specific page you wrote out and didn't see any facts that contradicted anything Leopold said. But maybe I missed something?
As you click through links though, some facts supported Leopold's arguements.

One example: https://www.statista.com/statistics/262962/countries-with-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/

I also found some data is put behind a pay wall. Do you have an account? Maybe I just can't see what you found because of the paywall?
When it comes to Leo, the issue is his interpretation of facts. He seems to believe his interpretations are facts. At the most they are entertainment. @Scribbles
@jackjjackson LOL Scribbles calls you out on your citation that you probably didn't even read, so you resort to ad hominem as usual.

Somebody told me you're not even a conservative, but you just play one to troll people on here.
Scribbles · 36-40, F
@jackjjackson oh, that's the issue is it? You don't like his opinion (fact based ones according to your own source) and want a different opinion?
Once upon a time there was a fact. Leo ran across it. After many twists and turns Leo expressed an opinion. Leo mentioned that fact. The relationship was tenuous at best. @Scribbles
@jackjjackson More ad hominem. You're so predictable. Why don't you just admit that you can't follow the discussion and don't even bother to read your citations past the headline?
Scribbles · 36-40, F
@jackjjackson pardon me, but I think out of the two of you... You (Jack) are the one proven to have a tenuous relationship with facts here. Have I not pointed this out twice on this post (one here and one by Room101)? And yet you are the one trying to hold a position to say Leopold is the one with a weak argument? What does that make your argument? Even weaker? My dad would ask if your brain is leaking out your ears.

It's a rather poor arguement to basically say you don't like Leopold's perspective and not care enough to point out which facts and opinions you think share a tenuous relationship and why you think that?

I am curious why democrat cities and states are "ravaged by crime for decades" in comparison to republican ones. I can easily point out how policies favored by each party has contributed to huge criminal and human rights issues in cities and states. I can also point to policies favored from each party that have helped their respective cities and/or states. What makes Democrat cities so much worse? And Republican ones better? Which issues or policies? I've been to many of the "Democrat" cities that people have listed on this thread. I've also been to many "Republican" cities so far in my lifetime. Both tend to have HUGE issues.

All big cities across the world have issues and examine relationships with crime tbh. And the majority of those cities are neither "Republican" or "Democrat" also. Lol

I go out of my way to learn lots about each place I visit. I also listen a lot to family and friends about where they live.
So I'm genuinely curious about your opinion. I'll share mine if you share yours.

But I also don't wish to waste either of our time if you aren't prepared to start a dialogue.

It's ok, you know- if you want to move on from the topic. It's not like anything will change unless people vote and stand up for positive changes in their respective Republican or democratic or battleground or whatever party politics are applicable in their communties anyway.
All I can tell you is what my eyes tell me? Do your eyes tell you that these once lovely thriving garden spot metropolises have remained so? @Scribbles
@Scribbles Jack hasn't thought that hard about it. He's just parroting the standard line on Tucker Carlson or Hannity about how "Democratic cities" are "out of control" supported by cherry picking or outright fabrication if he even bothers to go that far. He's also engaging in the genetic fallacy where anything I say is automatically wrong, just because I'm saying it.
Scribbles · 36-40, F
@jackjjackson what's your criteria for thriving? Cities are very big dense places. Some wards or districts in a city may 'Thrive" and others not, you know. There is inequality in economics, urban planning, and services and many other things in cities. If I am to give my opinion, I will give an opinion on what I believe worked well and what were problems in the past for a city and what currently is working well and what is not, and what problems there are now. And what people think of it and why they want to stay or leave. To me that would be an honest answer and opinion of a city.

I will not be a naive idiot who believes a city was paved in gold in the past-because then I'd be ignoring history. Nor would I be naive enough to say a city is paved in gold today because I'd be ignoring the people suffering today. I see too much. Nor have I claimed that cities are thriving or are suddenly crime hellholes. I have more implied then stated I suppose that I think comparable cities both Republican and Democrat controlled face many many problems and are more equal then people realize. They just don't because some problems are different. Which city do you want me to personally comment on? I can answer better with specifics.
How about if you start with Chicago please? @Scribbles
Since I don’t watch Fix and you claim to be able to parrot Carlson apparently YOU watch FOX 😂😆🤣😆🤣😂 @LeopoldBloom
Scribbles · 36-40, F
@LeopoldBloom I don't think he's a fox news disciple. Occasionally he reminds me of my dad (maybe more a drudge report kind of guy? Idk) with some of his political views because generally he has reasons to believe something even if I don't always agree and try to change his mind with facts or disproving his reasons.

I don't mind talking politics sometimes with Jack, because he's nice enough to me to listen to me ramble on even when I'm a little rude. He may not do that for everyone but I appreciate that he does so for me.

@jackjjackson Ohhh, Yes! I'm glad you picked Chicago. I was actually itching to talk about Chicago. That's a city I'm fairly familiar with and have lots of memories. we visit often to this day and we almost moved back there last year. I'm going to cook and eat dinner and try to get back on here and type my thoughts up. If not, I should have a shorter work day tomorrow and will have time to write.
@jackjjackson I was in Chicago a few years ago for work. Horrible weather but other than that I'd enjoy living there.
We rent talking about 30 years ago Leo. @LeopoldBloom
@jackjjackson Is 5 years ago recent enough? I also know people who live there. It's not the hellhole that racists who keep bleating about "Black on Black violence" are complaining about.

Actually, violent crime peaked around 30 years ago. After Roe v. Wade, the unwanted children who otherwise would have grown up to terrorize the rest of us, were instead aborted, leading to a gradual drop in the violent crime rate 20 years later when they would have reached their prime criminal years. Abortion saves lives - our lives.
Scribbles · 36-40, F
@jackjjackson @LeopoldBloom Hahaha. Yeah the winters are especially bad in Chicago.

@jackjjackson whoo, where to start. I like Chicago. I'm a big fan of downtown, feel totally comfortable walking the loop late at night. They've done alot of work to make the city more beautiful and green. I remember popping down the moment they finished work on the new riverfront. It's way cleaner then Manhatten for example. Has better access roads too, etc.

The city is a mosaic of neighborhoods with different history and influences, we love popping down to ethnic shops. Though we've been sad to see a change over the past five-10 years. Lots of shops and restaurants and unique little things changed or gone. Maybe because first generation has turned over more to second generation. Anyway...In fact lots of little business are gone and more major chains like dominoes pizza instead. There is still a lot of nice places for food and a good nightlife. I also love the cultural stuff to do in Chicago. I'm always learning more about the history and architecture. Good stuff. I like the public transportation , biking is also doable in many places. Chicago is also the cheapest to live downtown for a city it's size in America. Lots of gentrification currently happening there- Lots of new young people moving in-but also people moving out. Lots of investment in about 12 neighborhoods of the 77 or so in Chicago is happening from what I can see. But that amounts to neighborhoods that are already thriving or plateaued, are getting more money to grow. While struggling neighborhoods aren’t getting enough help.

Chicago still has lots of business and has a diversified economy. It's not overly manufactured or service based for example. It's lost some business. But also gained in some ways. Could it benefit from more jobs. Absolutely. Still has a lot of unemployment and it still needs a kickstart back from covid. What city doesn't need that right now?

It's no secret in Chicago that there are also massive inequalities in income, racial inequality, business loans, investment, opportunities, goods, services, housing affordability, in many neighborhoods. It remind me of Detroit and Milwaukee in a way only with more gun violence. You travel just a few miles in one direction and suddenly there are only a few corner stores (with crap food choices)all covered in bullet proof glass and bars, etc. Maybe a couple hair salons and bars, maybe one or two other barely surviving businesses. If you don't have a car to travel to a proper grocery store, you're stuck with processed food and few wilting veggies. I've heard of the go green market that got started in Englewood. I know they are hoping to emulate that in many other neighborhoods.

Chicago has programs to help build up economies in poor neighborhoods, and programs to help reduce gun violence. And while that’s good, it still isn’t even close to closing the gap, or lowering gun violence to a level in which the residents are happy. I used to have a post somewhere shouting out many programs that are making a difference in 13 neighborhoods that have the worst violence. Ah found it:
https://similarworlds.com/city-state/chicago/4381981-Shout-out-I-came-across-someone-over-the-weekend

Let's talk about the homicide rate. Since that is the one most remarked upon. There has been a huge rise. Most of it more concentrated in 15 neighborhoods or so. It's very tragic to go talk to someone who used to live in a neighborhood, where it's not uncommon for every child to have lost friends and family to gun violence, not uncommon for a teenager to have witnessed someone shot and killed. Not uncommon for people to turn to desperate measures to make money to get by.

The rate though isn't suddenly different from other years though. Chicago has had years with more homicides in the 70's for example. There are all kinds of reasons for jumps in violence.

I like how this article sums it up: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-history-of-chicago-homicides-htmlstory.html

That being said, some of the "bad" neighborhoods are very similar to the ones in my city. They have similar issues. I routinely walk through areas in which some of my friends outside the city wouldn't drive through for anything. But that is because of general racism,ignorance, fear, and a complete lack of any street smarts.

It's just a place where the lead poisoning needs to finally be dealt with. It's a place where people want to leave to somewhere with more opportunities to make something of themselves. It's also a place where some people have roots and want to stay. Sure gunshots become normal to hear after awhile, and hearing about who down the street is dead. It's A place where corrupt politicians is common.
Where aldermen stealing money seems to happen too often. It's A place where we need more jobs, better cost of living. Opportunities for higher paying jobs. Any disposable income to support local businesses, Services like daycare, clinics, pharmacies, banks, restaurants, stores, recreational activities, etc more commercial, public transportation, more investment, better policies with less racial bias and income bias. People in one neighborhood get evicted while people a couple.miles North don't get evicted even though both of them couldn't pay their rent. Stuff like that happens. You know? Weird differences in which people with a lower income generally face more struggles and hardship.

There are teenagers who carry guns in my city just as kids do in Chicago. That's a reality. It's A place where programs to help deal with issues rather then let it all escalate to violence and jailing everyone would be nice.

The people there will make it better if people have the opportunities and capital to do so. They want to make it better.

I guess the real question is...is enough of Chicago thriving enough to create enough capital to try to make an other parts of the city more livable and grow enough that they can start to thrive on their own rather then be poor and have poor conditions for its residents and dependent on programs that never seem to last more then a few years at at a time.

There's more I could mention. But I have to be going for now.

What do you think of this article and sources?

https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-red-state-murder-problem

Also what do you think of Lori Lightfoot?