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softspokenman · M
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softspokenman · M
@Ferise1 😱 Golee Sargeant
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Baremine More than that, most European countries now are constitutionally secular although the Church still has a lot of political and social influence, usually harmless but sometimes very bad, in certain ones. They all host and on the whole respect, all religions going; some seeing close ties between members of those different faiths.
This makes the implication that the only good people in the world are Christians, not only insulting to those of other faiths or none, but not even logical.
Apart from rare bursts of terrorist activities for political ends, random shootings at strangers in shopping-centres or schools for no clear reasons are thankfully very rare in European nations; fewer than one per decade per country. There have been about 4 in the UK in the last 40 years; though the worst was in Dunblane Primary-school with a death-toll of 13, nearly all children. Europeans see and are baffled by the USA's despairing inability to prevent them being so common there: so far this year that one country has counted about one a WEEK - the latest only yesterday (Independence Day).
Europeans and Americans argue over whether it's a matter of gun availability and control; and whilst that is a key point I do not think it the only one. Many Americans seem not to understand why Europeans do not want to be armed to the teeth. Equally, Europeans wonder why so many Americans who are certainly not going to massacre anyone, still proudly own private arsenals including powerful weapons having no rational civilian purpose.
Nor is highlighting an amendment to a constitution evidently open to being amended, the whole answer. Random but usually politically "inspired" murders have also been carried out by bomb, knife or vehicle, so it's not just a gun/ no-gun matter; but in a society that loves guns, an easily-bought, large-magazine, automatic rifle offers its user a high death-toll from a long range.
The backgrounds on both sides of the Atlantic must be deeply social, for both gun ownership and random murders. A startling light on that was shone by a friend visiting America. He found that although a foreigner there he could buy ammunition to replace that he'd expended by invitation on a host's private range; but was unable to prove his age to buy some beer, in the same, ordinary, small supermarket!
By no means all Americans own guns, even legally; but there is very little appetite to own guns in much of Europe, apart from sports-shooting more common in some countries than others.
Easy access to guns few people genuinely need certainly makes such murders easy, whether the killer in any given case bought his weapon legally or stole it from a law-abiding (but possibly negligent) owner; but why are such killings so frequent in that one country but so rare in so many others? And in that country suffering them - a country incidentally still with a strong Puritan-colonial streak - what is being done to minimise them?
So far at least this Danish case has not revealed its motive, be that religious or political extremism, or any other; but what makes it stand out is the rarity of such killings in any European country. Godly or not.
This makes the implication that the only good people in the world are Christians, not only insulting to those of other faiths or none, but not even logical.
Apart from rare bursts of terrorist activities for political ends, random shootings at strangers in shopping-centres or schools for no clear reasons are thankfully very rare in European nations; fewer than one per decade per country. There have been about 4 in the UK in the last 40 years; though the worst was in Dunblane Primary-school with a death-toll of 13, nearly all children. Europeans see and are baffled by the USA's despairing inability to prevent them being so common there: so far this year that one country has counted about one a WEEK - the latest only yesterday (Independence Day).
Europeans and Americans argue over whether it's a matter of gun availability and control; and whilst that is a key point I do not think it the only one. Many Americans seem not to understand why Europeans do not want to be armed to the teeth. Equally, Europeans wonder why so many Americans who are certainly not going to massacre anyone, still proudly own private arsenals including powerful weapons having no rational civilian purpose.
Nor is highlighting an amendment to a constitution evidently open to being amended, the whole answer. Random but usually politically "inspired" murders have also been carried out by bomb, knife or vehicle, so it's not just a gun/ no-gun matter; but in a society that loves guns, an easily-bought, large-magazine, automatic rifle offers its user a high death-toll from a long range.
The backgrounds on both sides of the Atlantic must be deeply social, for both gun ownership and random murders. A startling light on that was shone by a friend visiting America. He found that although a foreigner there he could buy ammunition to replace that he'd expended by invitation on a host's private range; but was unable to prove his age to buy some beer, in the same, ordinary, small supermarket!
By no means all Americans own guns, even legally; but there is very little appetite to own guns in much of Europe, apart from sports-shooting more common in some countries than others.
Easy access to guns few people genuinely need certainly makes such murders easy, whether the killer in any given case bought his weapon legally or stole it from a law-abiding (but possibly negligent) owner; but why are such killings so frequent in that one country but so rare in so many others? And in that country suffering them - a country incidentally still with a strong Puritan-colonial streak - what is being done to minimise them?
So far at least this Danish case has not revealed its motive, be that religious or political extremism, or any other; but what makes it stand out is the rarity of such killings in any European country. Godly or not.
Baremine · 70-79, C
@ArishMell in the USA the main cause of gun violence is inspired by the very liberal socialist communist democratic party. The last two Democratic presidents, Biden and Obama were both endorsed by the American Communist party. As any student of war knows you divide an conquer. That is what our democratic is doing.
As far as powerful guns you referred to the AR 15 is NOT a powerful weapon. Most 99% of them are used for sport shooting. And what is sport shooting?
Also seems like Europe always gives up their guns and somewhere has to put up with a murdering dictator then had to be delivered by a coalition of countries headed by the USA the most armed country in the world.
As far as powerful guns you referred to the AR 15 is NOT a powerful weapon. Most 99% of them are used for sport shooting. And what is sport shooting?
Also seems like Europe always gives up their guns and somewhere has to put up with a murdering dictator then had to be delivered by a coalition of countries headed by the USA the most armed country in the world.
Carazaa · F
@ArishMell
You might not realize that God told us
"The country who's God is the Lord will be blessed"
The reason England and Scandinavia have been so peaceful is because of the allegiance to Jesus for a thousand years. But now they forget who blessed them with wealth, peace, and joy, so now they will lose their peace, joy, and wealth!
You might not realize that God told us
"The country who's God is the Lord will be blessed"
The reason England and Scandinavia have been so peaceful is because of the allegiance to Jesus for a thousand years. But now they forget who blessed them with wealth, peace, and joy, so now they will lose their peace, joy, and wealth!
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Carazaa Why are you so determined to put everything in hard-line, holier-than-thou, evangelical Christian terms?
Your argument is flawed in two major ways:
1) History.
No European country -including what became the UK - has been blessed with wealth, peace and joy over the last thousand years; and certainly not through religion. Oppression at family, community and national levels in the name of God, fights between religions and within them over sects, were rife for much of that time; although most of the millennia's many wars and revolutions were political in nature.
The Church of Rome: Encouraged the Crusades series of Christian attacks on the rather more civilised and advanced Muslim lands. Forbade questioning of dogma, banned translating the Bible into local languages, brutally killed "heretics". Later, and together with some Protestant sects, became a byword for encouraging cruelty to women and children generally, in God's name.
Sectarian hatred between Christians: many 17 and 18C Europeans escaped that by colonising the American and other continents; only to suppress the indigenous people and religions, as well as women, for the God they convinced themselves had gifted them the lands.
2) Theology. As Baremine asks, "Whose version of God?" Worse, you imply that the only wealthy, peaceful, joyful people are those following your version.
Please remember the original question was not about religion. It was about gun laws in a modern, secular, generally very peaceful Western European country; following a random shooting that killed three and injured three others. Further, the crime of murder has been known and defined as wrong since time immemorial in practically all nations, cultures and religions; even when religiosity is its spurious excuse.
Random shootings are very rare in Europe partly because most Europeans do not need, want or own guns; but there must be social reasons why not, beyond any religion. By no means all Europeans are religious, but the vast majority of them are just as law-abiding and peaceable as all your Sunday-school idealists.
You do not have to be Christian to be religious. You do not have to be religious to be good!
Your argument is flawed in two major ways:
1) History.
No European country -including what became the UK - has been blessed with wealth, peace and joy over the last thousand years; and certainly not through religion. Oppression at family, community and national levels in the name of God, fights between religions and within them over sects, were rife for much of that time; although most of the millennia's many wars and revolutions were political in nature.
The Church of Rome: Encouraged the Crusades series of Christian attacks on the rather more civilised and advanced Muslim lands. Forbade questioning of dogma, banned translating the Bible into local languages, brutally killed "heretics". Later, and together with some Protestant sects, became a byword for encouraging cruelty to women and children generally, in God's name.
Sectarian hatred between Christians: many 17 and 18C Europeans escaped that by colonising the American and other continents; only to suppress the indigenous people and religions, as well as women, for the God they convinced themselves had gifted them the lands.
2) Theology. As Baremine asks, "Whose version of God?" Worse, you imply that the only wealthy, peaceful, joyful people are those following your version.
Please remember the original question was not about religion. It was about gun laws in a modern, secular, generally very peaceful Western European country; following a random shooting that killed three and injured three others. Further, the crime of murder has been known and defined as wrong since time immemorial in practically all nations, cultures and religions; even when religiosity is its spurious excuse.
Random shootings are very rare in Europe partly because most Europeans do not need, want or own guns; but there must be social reasons why not, beyond any religion. By no means all Europeans are religious, but the vast majority of them are just as law-abiding and peaceable as all your Sunday-school idealists.
You do not have to be Christian to be religious. You do not have to be religious to be good!
ProfessorPlum77 · 70-79, MVIP
In Israel, the Palestinians committed mass murder multiple times without the use of firearms.
Baremine · 70-79, C
@ProfessorPlum77 ur right they use the good stuff. Rockets grenades car bombs. If you want to be evil Satan will show you a way.
ProfessorPlum77 · 70-79, MVIP
@Baremine Especially, suicide bombers. In a public forum debate, one Israeli official (Netanyahu?) mentioned several contributions Israel had made to improve the world. Then he asked, "What have the Palestinians contributed, other than suicide terrorism?"