What will Israel consider in order to make a peace deal?

@FrogManSometimesLooksBothWays Go to the source - not the wikipedia summary. https://web.archive.org/web/20110607135527/http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2000/p1a.html

@trollslayer Dennis Ross was one of the U.S. negotiators at Camp David. This is his personal opinion about why Arafat walked away from the deal.

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@FrogManSometimesLooksBothWays well, that is one person’s opinion. But for Arafat, you get a portion of the land you want, but you don’t get control over your airspace or your water, and you agree to have israeli troops on your land, AND give up all right to complain or renegotiate in the future. Sounds to me like Israel was not willing to allow a two state solution.

@sascha That wasn't the question. I don't think any reasoned person would expect a nation to not respond to that kind of a terrorist attack. But denouncing the far-right, extremist Israeli government isn't even closely related to supporting terrorism. Which I think is the point you were making. Maybe I'm wrong.

@Ynotisay I see it as not that much different that the USA after 9/11. I think all Americans wanted a military response to the terrorist attack. For many Americans, that simply meant taking out Bin Laden and Al Qaeda and the Taliban. When it came to Iraq, many of us saw that as angry retaliation and unnecessary, and we were called "anti-American" for having that view.

We spent 20 years in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban and trying to change the culture there. And what is there now? The Taliban. Is Iraq better off without Saddam? Questionable.

The same fate will fall upon Israel. They may "destroy" Hamas, but they will be back in 5-10 years with another name. The difference is the USA is a hemisphere away and does not rely on international support.

If Israel truly wants lasting peace and recognition, they need to take a hard look at why so many want to fight them and realize "antisemitism" isn't the only reason.

@trollslayer A thoughtful comment. Thanks for that.

@hippyjoe1955 israel needs to take a long hard look at its history if it ever wants to find peace. I don’t think SA expects the court to hand a genocide ruling; i think they have already won by bringing attention to the issue. Notice how right before the hearing both the Pres and PM gave statements (somewhat) refuting some of the language spoken by some israeli ministers? Thats called covering their asses.

@trollslayer The problem is you can't trust a word that comes out of Israel. They change the tone of their language but not their actions on the ground. Israel as a nation needs to cease to exist. The people can stay there but they like the Palestinians will have one vote per person. They will not be able to steal houses or kill those who do not allow the theft to happen.

@sascha Turning Hamas into nothing = Genocide. All they are accomplishing here is creating another generation of people to despise Israel and will fight again when they get the chance. It has been going on for 80 years. I want that to change. Do you?

@trollslayer What part of recent events is telling us that there is likely to be change? The October 7th attack was the most savage in the history of Israel, and there is prolonged destruction and a very high death toll in Gaza.
There is nothing that would suggest a two-state solution is near, or that it is possible.

@sascha idk, the 1948 war was pretty savage.

@Quimliqer I am very familiar with Genesis. I am currently conducting a Bible study on it right now. The fact is that the New Testament called the state of Israel a 'synagogue of Satan and its flag the Satanic Star. The fact is that Israel as we fondly remember from the Bible is not the Israel we see now. Oh it has the same name but it is not the same thing. The old Israel had one purpose. To offer the sacrifice as the priestly people. However the Sacrifice has been made and therefore there is no longer a need for that kind of priestly people. As the New Testament says "therefore there is no Jew nor Gentile, no slave nor free, no male nor female for all are one in Christ Jesus. Israel as a nation has not Biblical rational for its existence. The fact is that the we were sold a bill of goods starting in the 1849s with the dispensationalism of Darby and Scofield. They were wrong. There is no special dispensation for Israel since the Death of Christ. That role is over. Time to move on. St Augustine was right in what he wrote. The book of Revelation is history not prophecy. It happened between AD 67 and AD 70. We are now living in the reign of Christ. No need for Israel at all. If it wants to call itself Israel the let it. But no special carve out based on the Bible. The Bible closed the door on the nation of Israel in 33 AD.

@hippyjoe1955 They are on the land god gave them! The only criticism in the New Testament is that the chosen have not yet bowed before the king the father sent!!

@Quimliqer That is what is called a type. As Israel of the old testament got the 'land' so we Christians in the New Testament inherit the Kingdom. The difference being that the land is inferior to the Kingdom. We are no longer to seek land but the Kingdom. Jews are not Jews (in the Biblical sense) by birth any longer. "jews" are now those who believe in Jesus and therefore inherit the Kingdom. That theme runs throughout St Paul's teachings. The other interesting fact is that none of the Israelis leaders are observant Jews. They don't follow any of the Mosaic laws. they simply put their beanies on and claim Jewish heritage. Sadly too many Christians got conned into believing Scofield and his 'bible' which BTY was only made popular by a Jewish publisher in New York. The point I am making is that Zionism and Judaism are very very very different things. What we are witnessing in the Middle East is Zionism not Judaism. Zionism is a fancy name for Nazism. Same effect same purpose same ideology. I was listening to a Jewish man whose family was terrorised by Israel to move from Morocco to Israel in the 1950s. The family didn't want to move because they felt more safe in Morocco. The Zionists terrorised them into moving to Israel and when they got there they found themselves to be second class Jews. He went on to say that there are also third class Jews. Those who came from Africa. Israel is not at all like the Israel of old and in fact orthodox Jews do not support it. They believe that the creation of the state of Israel is to be a miracle performed by the Messiah and not the creation of political machinations. Bibi is certainly not the Messiah and the genocide he is presently ordering is not of God.

@Roundandroundwego I'm halfway inclined to think they would nuke Gaza if not for being down wind and concerned for global reaction.

@hippyjoe1955 You said: "No Israel = no middle east war."

Israel is necessary for control of the oil in the Middle East. There is no real war going on between two equally strong opposing forces. Maintaining the balance of power in the world is what it's all about.

@sree251 Israel is the cause of the wars and if the oil producing lands want to get paid for their oil they will sell it. No need for Israel for that. Israel is an evil that needs to be removed from the world map. The people can still live there but they will just have one vote like all the Palestinians. No need for a religious state.

@hippyjoe1955 You said: "[b]Israel is the cause of the wars[/b] and if the oil producing lands want to get paid for their oil they will sell it. No need for Israel for that."

The wars began since 1948. The entire region is dominated by the military power of the UK and the US from day one. It is the projection of this military power that enabled the formation and continued existence of Israel to this day. I don't believe that 7 million Jews - on their own - in Israel can hold up against 400 million Muslim Arabs in the Middle East. This is a fictitious make-belief scenario.

People in every nation are under the control of governments of all forms (democracy, theocracy, autocracy, whatever). The bottom line is this. The UK and US are the major military powers providing arms and protection to practically all the Muslim governments (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Jordan, Iraq, Oman, Turkey) in the Middle East.

Therefore, this idea of Israeli Jews fighting Muslim Arabs is an illusion to hide the real geopolitical dynamic in the Middle East.

@AthrillatheHunt Israel's goal is :Greater Israel which extends from Turkey in the north which means all of Lebanon and all of Iraq all of Jordan nd a huge part of Saudi Arabia and the north part of Egypt. All the people in that region will then have to be Jewish or else they will be exiled or exterminated. Oh and there are levels of Jewishness as well. If you are a 'European Jew" you are top drawer. If your Jewish ancestors settled in the Middle East they are second class Jews. If you are from Africa you are the lowest form of Jew. Israel is an evil place.

@hippyjoe1955 Eratz Israel bro!

@AthrillatheHunt That is the long term plan of Israel. Let everyone be aware of it.