Israel has no right to self defense as the occupying power
Was the words of the UN specialist Francesca Albanese.
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CheekyBadger · M
People use "occuypying" to mean different things - e.g. the "Palestinians" use it to refer to the actual existence of Israel as a nation state since they claim all that land in that area as theirs. Some use it to refer to military presence of Israeli soldiers in the "West Bank" which is an area to the west of the River Jordan (that forms border with Jordan) to the east of Jersulalem. I don't know in what context this person is using it but at the heart of this conflict is an irreconcilable difference of opinion - namely whether Israel should exist and jews be permitted to live in that part of the world. Obviously the Israelis say it should and the Palestinians (mostly) say it shouldn't.
The obvious compromise is the so called "two state solution" which shares the land between the two groups which is what has been attempted over the last couple of decades where political power has been given to the two Palestinian groups - West Bank (WB) and Gaza Strip (GS). The people in GS held elections and voted Hamas to govern them. Hamas is dedicated to the elimination of Israel and doesn't keep that secret. WB elected Fatah which is currently more moderate and recognises Isreal's right to exist although there are attempts by more hardliners to assisinate the leader of Fatah. I have probably over simplified this but essentially we currently have two differing governments of the Palestine lands.
At the heart of this is the competition between Jews and Muslims to claim domination of that part of the world. If you go back even just 150 years you would find that there was more of a spread of different groups in that area - Jews as well as Christians and other religious groups were present. Over time more radical Islamists have gained power together with mass migration and these communities were attacked with many deaths encouraging the communities to relocate. Even Lebanon just north of Isreal was a Christian majority country until the 1930s but migration of people from neighbouring lands for various reasons has changed the demographic resulting in over 60% muslim majority.
The idea that there were no Jews in Israel until the creation of Israel as a state is just wrong - Jews came from that area originally and whilst many had left due to being persecuted there were still many that had remained - especially in places like Jersulalem. Of course the population increased with inward migration from other parts of the world - especially after the second world war but this itself wasn't the driver to create Israel - that had already been an idea with some traction behind it in the late nineteenth century. Jews having to leave other parts of the middle east bought land and settled in places like Tel-Aviv.
It is also conveniently forgottten that after the British had conquered the region (by overthrowing the Ottoman empire [Turkey]) they attempted to solve the issue then by allocating a portion of Palestine for the Arabs - this is now called Jordan, they appointed a ruler who was of royal descent in that area and left them to it. ethnically the Palastinians are same as majority Jordanians - this concept of Palestianian didn't really exist - the people calling themselves Palestinian are Arabs who originate further south (arabia - the clue is in the name) and have spread out from there - if the argument is made that Jews mostly come from elsewhere, then same argument applies to the Arabs too.
Even today the land of Isreal isn't exclusively for Jews - about 20% of the population are Muslim Arabs who enjoy equal rights with their fellow citizens and elect representatives to sit in the parliament. The supreme court judge that ruled the prime minister had broken the law a few months back is Arab. This notion that Arabs live in an arpartheid regime in Isreal is demonstrably false. Isreael also has Christians living there and others. I do recall someone claiming the evidence for this was that some cars had different number plates - in that case they did because the car was owned by someone from the WB which has a different government and issues it's own number plates - that's not apartheid, that's just what happens when you have differing civil administrations.
The obvious compromise is the so called "two state solution" which shares the land between the two groups which is what has been attempted over the last couple of decades where political power has been given to the two Palestinian groups - West Bank (WB) and Gaza Strip (GS). The people in GS held elections and voted Hamas to govern them. Hamas is dedicated to the elimination of Israel and doesn't keep that secret. WB elected Fatah which is currently more moderate and recognises Isreal's right to exist although there are attempts by more hardliners to assisinate the leader of Fatah. I have probably over simplified this but essentially we currently have two differing governments of the Palestine lands.
At the heart of this is the competition between Jews and Muslims to claim domination of that part of the world. If you go back even just 150 years you would find that there was more of a spread of different groups in that area - Jews as well as Christians and other religious groups were present. Over time more radical Islamists have gained power together with mass migration and these communities were attacked with many deaths encouraging the communities to relocate. Even Lebanon just north of Isreal was a Christian majority country until the 1930s but migration of people from neighbouring lands for various reasons has changed the demographic resulting in over 60% muslim majority.
The idea that there were no Jews in Israel until the creation of Israel as a state is just wrong - Jews came from that area originally and whilst many had left due to being persecuted there were still many that had remained - especially in places like Jersulalem. Of course the population increased with inward migration from other parts of the world - especially after the second world war but this itself wasn't the driver to create Israel - that had already been an idea with some traction behind it in the late nineteenth century. Jews having to leave other parts of the middle east bought land and settled in places like Tel-Aviv.
It is also conveniently forgottten that after the British had conquered the region (by overthrowing the Ottoman empire [Turkey]) they attempted to solve the issue then by allocating a portion of Palestine for the Arabs - this is now called Jordan, they appointed a ruler who was of royal descent in that area and left them to it. ethnically the Palastinians are same as majority Jordanians - this concept of Palestianian didn't really exist - the people calling themselves Palestinian are Arabs who originate further south (arabia - the clue is in the name) and have spread out from there - if the argument is made that Jews mostly come from elsewhere, then same argument applies to the Arabs too.
Even today the land of Isreal isn't exclusively for Jews - about 20% of the population are Muslim Arabs who enjoy equal rights with their fellow citizens and elect representatives to sit in the parliament. The supreme court judge that ruled the prime minister had broken the law a few months back is Arab. This notion that Arabs live in an arpartheid regime in Isreal is demonstrably false. Isreael also has Christians living there and others. I do recall someone claiming the evidence for this was that some cars had different number plates - in that case they did because the car was owned by someone from the WB which has a different government and issues it's own number plates - that's not apartheid, that's just what happens when you have differing civil administrations.
Moon3624 · 22-25, F
@CheekyBadger
You Thinking that Israel and Judaism are synonyms for each other is your problem that you have to deal with. There are hundreds of Jewish organizations and many Jews who are anti the state of Israel and view it as a settler colony .
And the whole land did belong to Palestinians. By Palestinians I mean
Jews Christians and Muslims who lived in that land before the state of Israel was founded and even before the British mandate before Ottoman Empire etc etc
However , the state of Israel was founded via mass migration of Jews who are not native to it
then massacres & mass expulsions of Palestinians and building settlements on their ashes and continued to do that since then.
The region did not belong to the British as much as it didn’t belong to Turks
And the British giving it to a third party
Is just another crime of the long list of crimes done by the colonial British empire ,
And Arabs this and Arabs that
Bro
Egypt dna wise is literally the decedents of ancient Egyptians 😂
The Levant people
Palestinians Syrians Lebanese etc are dna wise have big Canaanite dna and are indigenous to that land
Who said Theyv only annexed Palestine ? they literally also have annexed golan heights which internationally recognized as Syrian land except by Israel and USA
You Thinking that Israel and Judaism are synonyms for each other is your problem that you have to deal with. There are hundreds of Jewish organizations and many Jews who are anti the state of Israel and view it as a settler colony .
And the whole land did belong to Palestinians. By Palestinians I mean
Jews Christians and Muslims who lived in that land before the state of Israel was founded and even before the British mandate before Ottoman Empire etc etc
However , the state of Israel was founded via mass migration of Jews who are not native to it
then massacres & mass expulsions of Palestinians and building settlements on their ashes and continued to do that since then.
The region did not belong to the British as much as it didn’t belong to Turks
And the British giving it to a third party
Is just another crime of the long list of crimes done by the colonial British empire ,
And Arabs this and Arabs that
Bro
Egypt dna wise is literally the decedents of ancient Egyptians 😂
The Levant people
Palestinians Syrians Lebanese etc are dna wise have big Canaanite dna and are indigenous to that land
Who said Theyv only annexed Palestine ? they literally also have annexed golan heights which internationally recognized as Syrian land except by Israel and USA
Moon3624 · 22-25, F
CheekyBadger · M
@Moon3624
I don't object to this line of argument, however unless you deny that the Jewish people ever inhabited that land then surely you can't object to them returning to it?
I don't see your sources and I would also say that in my opinion Israel doesn't operate apartheid on it's citizens whether they are Arab or from elsewhere. Muslem Arabs make up 20% of the country and serve in the military (if they want - it isn't mandatory for them as it is recognised that whilst serving they may end up fighting people from the same background) and serve in parliament and judiciary at the highest levels. I can't see how anyone could describe this as apartheid which literally means to keep separate.
The region did not belong to the British as much as it didn’t belong to Turks
And the British giving it to a third party
And the British giving it to a third party
I don't object to this line of argument, however unless you deny that the Jewish people ever inhabited that land then surely you can't object to them returning to it?
“Not apartheid “
I don’t care your opinion. I quoted sources.
I don’t care your opinion. I quoted sources.
I don't see your sources and I would also say that in my opinion Israel doesn't operate apartheid on it's citizens whether they are Arab or from elsewhere. Muslem Arabs make up 20% of the country and serve in the military (if they want - it isn't mandatory for them as it is recognised that whilst serving they may end up fighting people from the same background) and serve in parliament and judiciary at the highest levels. I can't see how anyone could describe this as apartheid which literally means to keep separate.