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Israel/Hamas

My wife's family is Jewish, so I have heard plenty of opinions, discussions, rants about the Israel/Hamas war. I try to keep my mouth shut and on the sidelines, as mostly what I hear are loud supports for Israel and broad antisemitism claims directed towards anyone that shows any sympathy for Palestinians.

After listening to all this, I have formed the following opinions:
1) This feels similar to the USA attacking Iraq after 9/11. Much of the world asked the USA to use restraint, but the USA went ahead almost as a "retaliation". There are MANY similar incidents in WWII, such as bombing Tokyo, British carpet bombing German cities, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and many incidents in the Vietnan war, and many other incidents in history. Hard to condemn Israel for retaliating with full force against civilian targets when they are simply doing what most countries have done at one time or another.
2) Logic says Israel is not intentionally targeting civilians or hospitals. They may not be using enough care to avoid civilians, and there may be individual soldiers or officers wanting to enact revenge, but that happens in any war. Why does logic tell me Israel is not intentionally targeting civilians? Because they have nothing to gain from it. What they need is international support, and targeting civilians would not get them support. Hamas targets civilians because they do gain from it. They gain attention. Israeli retaliation only helps their propaganda message toward their own people.
3) Hamas exists because the Palestinians are an oppressed people. Again, many examples in history of this kind of thing. Israel tries to control Hamas by further oppressing and controlling resources. It is a valid strategy, but also a strategy that is almost guaranteed not to work. Ever notice in school how the strictest teachers complained of the most discipline problems? It's a chicken/egg thing. Not sure what Israel is supposed to do here, but blockading Gaza for a couple of decades certainly did not stop the terrorism. I'm not saying Israel civilians deserved to be attacked or that Israel caused this, but I think this was inevitable given the atmosphere. Israel is in the position of power here, and unless they rethink their strategy this will continue. You can't expect Palestinians to willfully give up whatever power they feel they have left.
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Ynotisay · M
It's such a complex topic. Israel sees, and sells, any kind of of push back as being antisemitic. That's their protective veil. Which has allowed them to oppress Palestinians for years. But I think what's happening is the world is siding with oppressed people. NOT Hamas. And that's a big difference and one they're unwilling to acknowledge.
And I'm not so sure Israel's leaders cares about protecting civilians. I think they want that land, for Israeli settlers and a military presence, and this is the excuse they needed. It's been a drip drip drip for years.
Can't forget who's running the Israeli show right now. He's a right wing extremist and human life is different to those people. They'll just call it collateral damage. Especially as they seem to see all Palestinians as enemies. The solution has always been there. Two states. But peace doesn't seem to be a goal for Netanyahu. Without enemies then what he's selling doesn't sell. He's been shitting on the U.S. efforts, as well as those of allies, and he's backing himself in to a corner. The world is turning against Israel and he should be paying attention. The billions they receive for their military each year, mostly from the U.S., isn't a guarantee.
trollslayer · 46-50, M
@Ynotisay What really got me thinking are comments from groups like BLM in support of palestine as "solidarity" with another oppressed people. And, they are the "underdog" and people, especially younger people, like to root for underdogs. But I think much of that cheerleading for palestine is blind to the complex problem that goes back years (as you have pointed out). And I think many in the US are sick and tired of this problem, sick and tired of supporting other countries, and see Israel (not the jewish people) as the one with the power to bring about some kind of peace to this region. I'm glad you mentioned Netanyahu. He seems to want to rule with a stronger fist, and I think the October attacks may not have happened if Netanyahu was not taking such a hardline stance.

Sure Israel withdrew from Gaza years ago. But they made sure to make the Gazans dependent upon Israel. I certainly don't even understand 1% of the history to this conflict, but maybe it is my ignorance that makes me wonder why Irael doesn't just let Gaza be its own country and treat them as such. What does Israel have to lose here?
Ynotisay · M
@trollslayer Good comment. Your last line really jumped out. [i]What does Israel have to lose here?[/i]
I think they could potentially lose an enemy with a two state solution that operates in peace. An enemy that contributes to the billions they receive in military assistance and which is used to prop up the idea of "us vs. them.' That's very useful to some leaderships. And religions for that matter. If you keep the people afraid and angry, and highlight differences instead of similarities, they're in a better position to say "We're the only ones that can protect you.' A lot can come from that.
I think if Israel hadn't been fueling this situation for years they would have had all the support they needed to try and destroy Hamas. It would have been a targeted effort to eliminate a terrorist organization. Something all Western nations would subscribe to. But that's not what happened.
sascha · F
@trollslayer [quote]What does Israel have to lose here?[/quote]

Their security, the lives of Israelis, and potentially the loss of their country.

How is Gaza dependent on Israel? It is less dependent on Israel than Egypt, and other Arab and Muslim nations.

Israel withdrew in 2005, and Hamas had taken over by 2007.

Why would Gaza be its own country? Did you mean it should be incorporated into Palestine as part of a two-state solution? Can you tell me how this is possible with Hamas in power?

Why is Israel responsible for Gaza? If Gaza has not become a successful area, is this not the fault of Hamas and its leaders? They are very rich, and they run Gaza. One would assume that it is the government in Gaza we should blame the most, instead of the Jews neighboring it.
trollslayer · 46-50, M
@sascha "How is Gaza dependent on Israel? It is less dependent on Israel than Egypt, and other Arab and Muslim nations."

Where do Gazans get their food and water and basic resources? Are they free to import whatever they wish into their country?
sascha · F
@trollslayer The PA authorizes their imports from Israel and the Palestinian territories, and Egypt has control over what is imported through the south.

Their water comes from inside Gaza, and a smaller amount is from Israel. There are many water sources in Gaza, although some are not very clean. Hamas is the government there, and they receive billions from Qatar and Iran. I think they are capable of ensuring that Gazans receive clean water, but are not very interested in this. People spend a long time peddling libels and conspiracy theories relating to Israel apparently benefiting from Hamas in some way, but they do not want to consider how Hamas benefits from the suffering of Gazans. Were it not for their plight, they would have no platform. A healthy and peaceful Gaza means no Hamas. This is why they refused to have the blockade lifted, after the multitude of times Israel offered to lift it.

Israel supplies around half of its electricity, with the other half coming from their power plant. Hamas is the only party in control of their power plant. If they are not supplying it with fuel as part of their defense strategy regarding exploiting and killing its civilian population, it is their fault. Meanwhile, Israel should still provide the rest of their electricity.

Do you think Israel is the only entity with the power to help those in Gaza? It seems that you do.