Today I woke up with the feeling of dread. Sheer anxiety in the face of the new economic crisis

@SW-User Someone I care for and whose opinion I respect once told me. We are all in our own individual journey. And before you can take care of others, you have to take care of yourself. I understand friends and family and country, but at the end you sit alone in the center of your universe. You do what's best for you. If you don't, slowly the world will bite chunks off if you until there is nothing of you left but an old body surrounded by dead dreams. Good luck

@AlxnderTheAdequate Hi. I see our own individual journey is in part to recognise the heart of the Buddhist text:-

In protecting oneself one protects others
In protecting others one protects oneself

@SW-User I sometimes wonder if the Buddhist texts were meant to be read, taken to heart, then throw away _once_ they are read, enough? Just to give time in pause and know what that pause means. Cause if I took every moment to care in protecting myself, it comes with some insight, I'd make a barrier/wall from those I love, and what kind of relationship is that? (Just random musings of mine)

@thewindupbirdchronicles Well, there is no end to texts. There is the Parable of the Raft, that the teachings are for "crossing over, not for grasping".

@SW-User There is also no ending to meanings, the words that might become much like another, it's the human condition. I do make it simple, though this is a cover of his with LC's 'Passing Through'. There is no wonder in his choice in his choice in covering. I will harness a bet, those who don't go through the throws of emotional/philosophical questions, which include theological, and more. They have the same exact questions reared upon their throws of life, how they find love, what ends they push towards. I think it's rare some find that answer, I find it beautiful some seek this way, but does it give reason at the end of their time, or in their life?

@thewindupbirdchronicles I've always been into the "negative way", basically more a stripping away of beliefs. "Conclusions" are seen as false, even detrimental to what in Buddhism is called the "Holy Life". This is all related to the "not-self" teaching, the heart of the Dharma. "Self" as [i]becoming[/i] not "being".

"Passing Through" sounds OK, yet what exactly is passing through?

I'm aware of accusations of nihilism, and all the rest of it.

I'm very much into Dogen at the moment, the 13th century Japanese zen master, particularly his "Genjokoan", variously translated.

But sorry, mornings and particularly sunday mornings, are not my best time. That's all for now.

All the best

@SW-User [quote]crossing over, not for grasping[/quote] I think this expression covers, [i]passing through[/i]. That's where I meant in there. I can find the words, but the concept is the same. To transcend a time in our lives, whether it be the temporary moment, or the more holy. The epiphany versus the sacred change one experiences in life

No, I don't like ZEN philosophy, I feel it misses the heart of the matter. But not a student like you, yet familiar with Buddhist texts, and there are plenty of Buddhists who speak against the theology of Zen. I say theology, not that there is any kind of god, one to worship, but it makes the ego, too important, a treatise to worship on its own; like a God.. Falling back on, simply I exist, I can not see others exist, so I have to trust in my taking of their (I'd liken that to a kind of abandonment in faith, allowing too many interpretations), and to me, there are so many ripe chances for harm there; it begs me, why not just give yourself to living?

I know people ask that again, again, and again... but there is no philosophy/religion that will ever that answer that question. We may not see it, and language is given trifle in meaning these days, we may be closer than those who question everything, to be a collective community, in thought, idea than we ever were before?

People speak of the old art, poets, literature, like they are a beacon of light, but I say those teachings only give a window still here, think of literacy rates... you can speak with a random person, use that language, find someone who knows and sees those windows. I feel some of the beauty of modern poets is they speak of these things, depreciate themselves on their own to give to those old poets of yesterday, as they know they are just building on a teaching we all have to accept, somewhere?

Yet, when we are born, we are just but infants, looking to the world to help us make sense.

@thewindupbirdchronicles Hello again. Zen is not my home ground so to speak, more Pure Land Buddhism.

But over the past few years I am finding that zen and Pure Land are intimately related. Very much so in the East. In the West the so called Buddhism of Faith (Pure Land) is avoided, very much misunderstood, as being some sort of pseudo Christianity. Yet reading and going more deeply into zen in its homelands the word "faith" is not a dirty word at all.

Of Dogen......"to study the self is to forget the self". Truly to forget it.

As David Brazier writes in his own fine study of Dogen's "Genjokoan":-

In modern times, self-development, personal growth and spiritual liberation have become confused. I suspect that much of what we consider to be the real value of meditation and similar practices Dōgen would have regarded as narcissistic distraction.

@SW-User Maybe I worry if someone truly forgets self, they lose sight of emotions including love, empathy, compassion? When maybe that's the root of how to become, I could spin around this for a lifetime. The modern world tricks you just to sell, to make you copacetic, apathetic, but how can one be apathetic without a sense of self?

So, maybe, I answered myself, but damn, I've learned I'm going to say, who I love to who I love. I once chased the idea of dispassion, may have gone too far in loving the idea, but rendered the thought, in my tired soul, useless. Let go of all you love, you will find an easier path towards studying yourself, alone, but I don't feel that is what the words really mean.

It might be the twisted, self-development, personal growth, self liberation you speak of. I call that a twisted form of narcissism, when really, we live in a world with many people, and no doubt some are going to affect you; the literal and metaphorical you. To chase that away is? 'I have to choose my precious few, and I have to deal with envy, when I'm coming back to you'.

zzz, I do like the philosophies that put the person first, trying to find a collective, to give back to a person. It has something, but what is it?

@thewindupbirdchronicles Just to share - and because it's all I'm capable of at the moment - a cut and paste job which offers another take on "narcissistic distraction", this from Thomas Merton, the Catholic anti-monk. Merton is a fine guide to zen, especially as found in his letters and Journals. But this is from a published book, "Zen and the Birds of Appetite" and serves as a preface to that work:-

[i]Where there is carrion lying, meat-eating birds circle and descend. Life and death are two. The living attack the dead, to their own profit. The dead lose nothing by it. They gain too, by being disposed of. Or they seem to, if you must think in terms of gain and loss. Do you then approach the study of Zen with the idea that there is something to be gained by it? This question is not intended as an implicit accusation. But it is, nevertheless, a serious question. Where there is a lot of fuss about “spirituality,” “enlightenment” or just “turning on,” it is often because there are buzzards hovering around a corpse. This hovering, this circling, this descending, this celebration of victory, are not what is meant by the Study of Zen—even though they may be a highly useful exercise in other contexts. And they enrich the birds of appetite. Zen enriches no one. There is no body to be found. The birds may come and circle for a while in the place where it is thought to be. But they soon go elsewhere. When they are gone, the “nothing,” the “no-body” that was there, suddenly appears. That is Zen. It was there all the time but the scavengers missed it, because it was not their kind of prey.[/i]

@thewindupbirdchronicles Thanks. I'm am really mentally tired at the moment.

The whole subject is complex. Beyond me perhaps at all times, but certainly beyond me now to respond to.

Thanks.

@SW-User Appreciated in text, but still rings in me, who is the one thinking of terms of love and loss, and why not seek it? Who put in the words, prey... immediately that exists as a bias to me, but I can't imagine a spiritual idea/philosophical without one. I expect the answer is easier without exploring consciousness, though consciousness will always exist, moving. Thus, an intangible idea, where we float ideas upon to answer what we can not know. Essentially rendering all text to give meaning, only to give meaning to those who find them of meaning.

I hope I have not lost sight, or strung away in theory too far here. I am tired, and your questions, I do like and appreciate.

@SW-User See my words below, or now above. Thank you for the conversation. I'm also beyond now. Thank you.

@thewindupbirdchronicles Hello again. Getting back to this. Only 11.30 here and it's already been a long day, up at 6.30 with the grandchildren (girl 9, boy 11) with us, get them up and ready for school. Breakfast. Still have to tie their laces! Bless them. Taxi to school, the buses totally unreliable. Drop them off then a three mile hike back, popping in for shopping on the way. Now a bus into town - it turned up, hallelujah!!!!! Now burger and chips in McDonalds before my 4 hour stint in Oxfam, then pick up the kiddies, back to theirs, feed them, then wait for mum to get home around 10.30. Another taxi home. All good fun. Not sure why I'm telling all this. Just love the ambience of McDonalds. Therapeutic.

I can only see the "self" as a [i]becoming[/i], not as "being". As a "becoming" it can then be a partner to "truth", which itself is an unfolding, a constant advance into novelty. "Truth" as writ on stone (self as "being") has to become a truth writ on human hearts. So many seem content with the former, even think it [i]is[/i] the latter.

It's said that if the Buddhist teaching of [i]anatta[/i] (not-self) is not understood, then the whole Dharma will be misunderstood. After many years I still seek to understand. - to truly understand, when knowledge becomes praxis, spontaneous. I see it as error to think of "self" as "being", as under construction. I think we can inherit a way of being (conditioning, not particularly choosen) and then our life is simply a reflex action. As someone else has said, every time we happen on a statement or sentiment that fits in with our conditioned notions we adopt it, perhaps with enthusiasm, at the same time ignoring, as though they did not exist, the statements or sentiments which either we did not like or did not understand. And so our little persona is constructed, set in concrete.

To me such a self must needs be "dropped", become "dark", this so as to reflect truth. Once we reflect, we can perhaps become its partner. This presumes Faith in Reality, that it is worth "reflecting", becoming a partner of. My own faith is that Reality is infinite compassion, infinite wisdom, infinite potential.

I'm very much into the so called "eastern" ways, and speak of zen, Dogen, the Lotus Sutra etc etc. All deemed exotic. But I think back to my past when I had a yearning to travel - and the yearning was for deserts, palm trees, pagodas, camels and all the rest of it. When this yearning had been satisfied I found myself back in my home town, on the railway station which overlooks the town. A drizzly day, rain on the rooftops. I remember thinking that the adventures were over, I was truly back home. But then, looking at the skyline, a few random thoughts. Not an epiphany or some sort of cosmic consciousness (!) but transforming nevertheless. What is more exotic? A cow or a camel? An oak tree or a palm tree? A pagoda of a church spire? Sand or grass? I will not labour the point......perhaps I already have!

So what is "exotic" and what is mundane, run of the mill? As Proust says, we need new eyes, not new lands to discover. Or something like that.

I simply wish to surrender (as it were) and reflect, and become a partner of that which is for me - in faith - Reality.

Whatever "enlightenment" is (and the fundamental Buddhist Theravada texts do not use the word, speaking only of "unshakeable deliverance of mind") as Dogen says:-

[i]Flowers will still fall even though we love them, weeds will still grow, even though we hate them.[/i]

Or as per the zen koan:- "A clearly enlightened person falls in the well. How is this so?"

Our little selves have strict limits, and yet, thinking about it, are limitless from another perspective.

Well, I waffle and ramble.

I must ask about your "screen name", has it to do with "The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle" by Haruki Murakami? I seem to remember, way back, actually reading this book, and all I remember is something about a particularly gruesome death (skinned alive or something - talk about grasping at anything that fits our conditioned notions 😀 !) but I might have the wrong book. I know I made very little of it at the time.

Anyway, thanks for the conversation.

@SW-User Fine words and response. But getting back to you is met with the same I need to tidy myself up some and sleep. I will follow up, thank you.

@thewindupbirdchronicles There really is no problem. Thanks.

@SW-User You are kind, I know there is no problem, I hope, but thanks for the expression.