@LordShadowfire abortions are an ugly thing, like amputations. The more people come to accept them the harder it will be to leave them in the past where they belong
@LordShadowfire People shouldn't feel like destroying their offspring in the first place.
Plus I'm not buying that. If medical care were so important to them then they'd be as careful as I have been about sex. Nothing says I love my health like an unnecessary surgery
@Jackaloftheazuresand They had cancer and were pregnant. Chemotherapy would have put the fetuses at risk, so under the very draconian Ohio law, they were denied cancer care. I don't know what more you need.
@LordShadowfire like how long they knew they had cancer and how far along they were in their pregnancy. It wouldn't hurt to know the specifics on each as well.
@Jackaloftheazuresand Most people rightly view abortion as a form of health care. If pro-lifers were as adamant about supporting people after they're born, maybe you could change peoples' minds. But none of the new abortion restrictions include anything like paid maternity leave, or subsidized day care, or even provisions to protect doctors when they have to perform abortions to save the woman's life. So you're not winning any converts when you're passing laws that people rightly view as oppressive.
@Lila15 That would just be feeding the problem. It's not on the prolife people to take care of the baby. The whole point is to get them to take some responsibility onto themselves, real responsibility. I want people to change their minds because it's right not because they have their this or that demands catered to, that change would never last if it even could come about from it. It's like feeling oppressed because you can't use PCP. A dumb thing you shouldn't care about losing a right to because only an idiot takes on the risk of a pregnancy with the plan to back out on it at some point. It's ride or die and maybe if they lived with that mindset they'd take it more seriously.
Maybe the other guy doesn't know but I come from that state and I don't know what two women he is even talking about. I do know there was an anonymous woman who claimed to be denied because her provider wouldn't give her a pass. So boohoo get one that will. The only law involved there is the one that allows them to decide how to proceed and she agreed to their terms when she took them so look, more running from our decisions. If these women exist and anyone killed them then it was themselves.
@Torsten The abortion restrictions put the women's doctors in the position of having to decide between a malpractice suit and a prison sentence. So they contributed to the women's deaths.
If you were in an accident and bleeding out, and someone prevented a doctor from caring for you, and you died as a result, wouldn't you say that the person who prevented the doctor from providing lifesaving care at least contributed to your death?
@Jackaloftheazuresand Sometimes, having an abortion is the responsible thing to do. If a single mother already has three kids that she can barely take care of, having another one would be very irresponsible.
It sounds like you're saying if a woman has sex, she should be forced to give birth, even if it will kill her? That sounds like punishment for having sex. Since pregnancy is a continuous process, consent also has to be continuous. Otherwise, I could say that if you hired me to do a job and I turn out to be a bad employee, you can't fire me because when you hired me, that meant you were stuck with me forever.
If abortion is illegal where those women were, they couldn't just go to another doctor. In the 1950s, rich women used to fly to Sweden for abortions. If your goal is to stop abortion, it's odd that you're OK with women having them as long as they do it somewhere else.
wait did @Jackaloftheazuresand create cancer and give it to people? If not, what a incredibly dumb thing to say
No, dick for brains. He was saying there's never a good reason for an abortion, and that it should never be considered part of medical treatment. So I guess someone who has both cancer and an unborn fetus is just fucked.
@Lila15 No the responsible thing if you're a single mother with three kids and you can't care for another is to not be sleeping with people.
That's what she should force on herself. The only "force" from others I'm okay with, which is how it is currently, is that we aren't going to participate in your abortion. That's not really force, it's a neutral action. I don't know where you get that consent argument since a person is perfectly capable of saying they consent to a full process in one go. When you get hired you agree that you can be fired for performance as one of the conditions of the working contract, that's not continuous consent being given but instead the initial conditions allowing it being honored.
It's odd to you because you people don't know me, despite acting like you do. I'm okay with them leaving because 1. It is what is available to them and 2. It sets a stigma on abortion and a standard in the community they depart. Actually I'm 100 percent okay with abortions taking place but I have a price, something that proves to me a lesson will be followed even if not learned, and that price is if you go in for one then both people involved in making the baby will also be sterilized. I also make the rape exception in case anyone wants to bring that up.
@Jackaloftheazuresand OK, so you're saying that forcing a woman to give birth is appropriate punishment for having sex. If a woman is already pregnant, it doesn't help to say she shouldn't have had sex.
Forcible sterilization of both men and women as the price of abortion is tyrannical and will just encourage women to have illegal abortions where that won't happen. You might as well just outlaw it outright. And the rape exception is what's called a moral bandaid that only makes your position look less extreme than it really is. How will it work? Can the woman just file a police report stating that a guy in a mask jumped out of an alley? What if the rapist is caught, stands trial, and is acquitted (only 6 out of 1000 rapists sees the inside of a jail cell)? Does the doctor or the woman go to prison because the woman "wasn't really raped?"
What the anti-abortion crowd doesn't like to address is that abortion is very popular, and outlawing something popular rarely works well. All it will do is set up a lucrative black market. And please don't follow up with "why don't we legalize murder and robbery." Those aren't popular, so outlawing them doesn't deny people something they want.
No, dick for brains. He was saying there's never a good reason for an abortion, and that it should never be considered part of medical treatment. So I guess someone who has both cancer and an unborn fetus is just fucked.
and him having that opinion killed people, like you claimed? what am i missing here? Do opinions kill people now?
@Lila15 No it's a natural consequence. When you eat too much and get fat you aren't being punished and this is the same. Oh I beg to differ, she'll carry those words and the experience with her and that's the best help.
If the desperation is so great then sterility is a small price, the procedure already carries a risk of destroying your reproductive capabilities anyway and they accept that. It's a compromise which would be more effective, they get something and I get something. I brought up the exception to prove a point about presumptuous statements being made about me. How that's handled is a separate matter.
Black markets fit into my worldview. I'm a person of certain principles and what I care about most is that things stay in their proper zones.
@Torsten He didn't create cancer, but he supports the asinine laws that denied them the life saving procedure.
If you get bit by a rattlesnake, the pvenom kills. However if you get bit by a rattlesnake and I deny you the antivenom in my pocket, I let you die and killed you through proxy. It's not difficult to understand.
and him having that opinion killed people, like you claimed?
Show me where I claimed that. Show me a fucking screenshot showing that I said his opinion killed people. I'll wait right fucking here, I've got all night. You either show me a screenshot, or be known as a liar.
