Ok im going to give my opinion

@Stargazer89 you the Bible as a political document its a bunch of religious documents and texts. According to the constitution religious texts are to be separate form political debate. Now im gonna ask should a woman be forced to carry a child to term if the pregnancy is the result of rape? Or if the pregnancy would kill her? Or if the child would either have a severe genetic defect resulting in crippling debt or constant discomfort or short life span? Like hours short. Im ok with it in those cases.

@Ozuye502 You cannot tell someone , even government officials that they aren't allowed to base they're beliefs on religious views. Every person is raised with some type of a belief system . Some are christian, secular or atheist. To tell someone to leave their beliefs at the door isn't possible.

The separation of church and state means that US will not be represented by one religion. Not that a government official can't bring specific values with them. Beliefs and values make us the people that we are. No official can say that there should be a specific law based on religious beliefs.

No PL advocate supports.letting a woman die because of pregnancy. There have always been and continues to be Drs who preform life saving procedures in cases where a mothers life in jeopardy. These cases are almost never except an ectopic pregnancy or a cancer that requires immediate chemotherapy or radiation. A womans life and her health are two separate issues. But the mothers life always comes first.

For anyone to say that they support abortion in cases of rape is condemning that baby who had no choice in being conceived to death for the sins of the father and saying that it is less human because of how it was conceived. It is still part of the mother also. I understand is she chooses adoption. But there are people who don't how the baby came to be.

I have met some women who regret not keeping their baby when they have been raped but not one who regret choosing life. I'm certain that there are women who don't regret their abortion.

@Stargazer89 Please quote the Bible verse that specifically prohibits abortion.

@LeopoldBloom There is no specific verse in the bible that prohibits abortion, but there are 100 that speaks the sanctity of life . Simply stated, the 6th of the 10 commandments forbids the
" unjustified " taking of human life " Thou shall not kill ".

I don't need the bible to know that the intentional act of stopping a life from developing is wrong.

@missyann Thou shalt not kill would also prohibit taking human life in warfare and self-defense. This is how Quakers interpret it - no taking of human life for any reason. Vegans take it a step further to mean not killing animals either.

The reality is that there is no verse in the Bible referring to abortion, other than the Bitter Water Test in Numbers 5:11-22, which could have abortion as a side effect. Apparently, the ZEF's life was worth less than the man's need to know if his wife was cheating on him. Many other Bible verses support infanticide, like Psalm 137:9. Genesis 2:7 says life begins with the first breath, meaning ZEFs aren't alive, which may explain why there was no rule against aborting them.

I don't need the Bible to know that forcing women to serve as incubators is wrong. The modern Christian fundamentalist obsession with abortion is a relatively recent development.

@LeopoldBloom modern abortion is a relatively recent thing it self.
I do agree nothing should be done by force.
And honestly thr way the Bible is written is not the original wording tho shall not murder killings happened all the time. Self defense killings happen more often than you think. Its just not reported on because of reasons im not getting into here.

@Ozuye502 Yes, modern, safe medical abortion is relatively new. So is surviving childbirth. It wasn't that long ago that women had no idea if they would survive giving birth. It's still statistically more dangerous to give birth than to have an abortion.

@LeopoldBloom i will agree to that

@LeopoldBloom [quote]It's still statistically more dangerous to give birth than to have an abortion.[/quote]
not for the baby. Only one of those results in death 100% of the time. but hey, they dont matter. so its cool

@Torsten Except it's not a "baby," it's a ZEF that's not aware of its own existence and is incapable of suffering, unlike the mother who will suffer greatly if she's forced to serve as an incubator.

So you're against taking human life in all circumstances, like warfare and self-defense? Or you make exceptions for lives you disapprove of?

@LeopoldBloom Medical experts agree that fetal pain begins at 12 wks. Since there is absolutely NEVER a reason to intentionally kill an unborn fetus to save a mothers life. I believe in a womans strength and her ability to give 9 months of her life to give life. We are strong enough to do this

@missyann No, they do not. The Fetus is first capable of feeling pain at 22-24 weeks.

So if it's an ectopic pregnancy, what should the woman do? Pray for a miracle? And it's only recently that giving birth has become less dangerous. Throughout most of human history, it wasn't unusual at all for women to die in childbirth.

You don't have a right to make decisions for other people. That would be like me saying that I donated a kidney and it worked out fine for me, so everyone should be forced to do the same thing.

Anyway, I don't care if people are against abortion as long as they don't want to outlaw it for others. That probably explains why support for abortion rights is so high - there are a lot of people who would never have an abortion themselves, but don't want to tell other people what to do.

@LeopoldBloom I suppose it is which experts a person chooses who to believe. I choose www.livenews.com scientist confirm a fetus can feel pain as early as 12 wks.

An ectopic pregnancy and life saving treatments always have been and remain legal. The intent is NEVER to intentionally kill the unborn fetus. An ectopic pregnancy, the fetus will never become viable outside the mothers womb and is life saving for the mother. Intention does matter. The intention of an elective abortions is ALWAYS to kill an unborn fetus. No Dr or hospital hesitates to allow or perform any life saving treatments or procedure to save a mothers life including ectopic pregnancies. Only Drs who make it their mission to preform elective abortions are afraid because they have made a living creating " life saving diagnosis " to justify their dismemberment of live human beings. Yes, I realize that there was an ignorant politician who tried to get legislation for Drs to be required to re implant ectopic pregnancies, This was an ignorant move.

With proper healthcare pregnancy is safer than it ever has been. Yes there are maternal deaths. But with advances in medicine and when women make healthy choices they become fewer. Growing another human being inside your body is dangerous. But most women who choose motherhood understand the honor is to grow to that precious life within them. Even most women who choose to carry this life to term when they know this precious life will not survive or will be disabled.

Supporting politicians who promote laws and stand for moral values that are important to me is not me telling anyone what they can and cannot do. I don't go to abortion clinics with a gun and threaten anyone and I'm not responsible nor do I support and condone anyone who does. I also support laws to punish child molesters, am I pushing my moral beliefs on them ? I hope the hell not. I don't say I personally wouldn't molest a child but I don't have the right to tell someone else not too. I personally see no difference in killing the life and killing the child within a life

Poll numbers change according to who's asking and who they are asking and wording used in the questions, the use of " most americans believe " can mean most of the americans THEY asked could mean 9 out of 10 americans which wouldn't actually be a lie, would it ? Maybe I could ask " do you believe that life begins at conception " ? I bet 10 out of 10 people I pick to ask would say YES !! That would be " all of the americans polled said yes " Is it wrong to kill any innocent life ? Again " all of the americans polled " said YES !! Besides I don't follow follow the popular crowd because I've seen to many " cool kids " CRASH & BURN !!!

@missyann Several PL politicians have proposed outlawing abortion for ectopic pregnancies. At least you're aware that it's currently impossible to "reimplant" them. It's scary that some PL politicians are so ignorant.

The intention of abortion is to end the pregnancy. Killing the ZEF is a side effect. If it was possible to transplant ZEFs into other women or artificial wombs, many pregnant women would be willing to do that.

It's great that giving birth isn't as dangerous today as it used to be, but it's still statistically more dangerous than abortion, especially for Black women. The maternal death rate in the US is among the highest of any developed country. I'll take the PL politicians more seriously if they start addressing this instead of just focusing on outlawing abortion.

Of course you can ask questions to skew poll results any way you like, but support for abortion rights has been consistently around two-thirds for decades if you go by legitimate polling organizations that don't have an agenda. And when people are allowed to vote, the results are overwhelmingly pro-choice, even in conservative states like Kansas. These results along with the unusually poor showing by Republicans in the last election is making some politicians think twice about supporting such an unpopular and tyrannical policy.

If you want to reduce the abortion rate, you should support things like universal health care, affordable day care, free public college, and paid parental leave. The US is one of only a few countries in the world that doesn't require employers to pay women for time off to give birth. But the PL politicians seem to hate social welfare programs almost as much as they hate abortion.

@LeopoldBloom for a guy who thinks men dont get a say in this, you certainly love to tell people your opinion and dispute what some women say here. Do you actually believe men dont get a say or does that only occur when its opinions that are not yours?

@Torsten I don't think a man should get veto power over a woman's body just because he's banging her. But as a member of society, I'm entitled to an opinion on public policy, because it affects me. You're also entitled to spout your anti-abortion views on here. But the only way your opinion over what happens to the ZEF created by you banging some chick is if she includes you in that decision.

Public policy affecting everyone: everyone gets to share their opinion
Specific right to control another person against their will: GFYS

To give another example, would you support a law requiring men to get their partner's permission to buy Viagra?

@LeopoldBloom The ONLY time sex is not considered a legal responsibility is when a woman chooses to kill an innocent unborn child by having an abortion. NO responsibility !! because " its her body "

If a woman gets pregnant and the man wants nothing to do with that baby for any reason there is no court that would allow him to sign is rights away to avoid paying child support unless she was married and her spouse would adopt the child. Why, because he is RESPONSIBLE when he chose to participate in the act of sex that produced that child. If she doesn't want him to have anything to do with the child and a paternity test proves that he is the father, she can't prevent him from being a part of their childs life Why ? Because she is RESPONSIBLE when she chose to participate in the act of sex that produced the child. He has no right to prevent her from having an abortion. Why ? Because once again, just because she chose to have sex doesn't make her legally responsible to the life she willingly created. Abortion is ONLY time when sex is not considered a legal responsibility, is when a woman chooses to kill an innocent unborn life. NO responsibility !! " because " its her body "

@missyann Considered a legal responsibility by who? It depends on the jurisdiction.

You are correct that parents cannot sign their rights away without the agreement of the other parent. This applies to both men and women. If the father has sole custody, the mother pays child support and cannot sign away her rights without the father's agreement. This has nothing to do with having sex; it would apply if they adopted a child.

Having sex in no way entails a woman to give birth. Since birth is a continuous process, consent must also be continuous. A man can't say that just because a woman started having sex with him means she's required to let him finish. She can revoke consent at any time, and if he refuses to withdraw, he's guilty of rape. Saying that because a woman had sex, she's required to give birth whether she wants to or not is the mentality of a rapist. If you want to force a woman to give birth, have her sign a contract before she has sex agreeing to that. This is why surrogates sign lengthy contracts even though they obviously became pregnant on purpose. But don't assume that an implied contract exists just because you think it should.

Also, having an abortion is also taking responsibility. Many women unthinkingly have children they aren't prepared for; this is hardly being responsible.

@LeopoldBloom There are consequences to everything we do in life and you don't get do say " whoops, erase do over " . It just makes a person sound spoiled and immature to say that they shouldn't have to take responsibility for something they both consented too. Adults are held responsible for everything else we do. Why should pregnancy be any different. ?

When you consent to drink alcohol knowing you might have a hangover. You don't get to kill the bartender when you wake up with one. When 2 people consent to have sex, they KNOW that the possibility is ALWAYS pregnancy.

Instead of INTENTIONALLY ending a lifes development, a LIFE that is a consequence of consensual sex. Wouldn't it be a better for everyone involved, especially the only one who had no choice, to use birth control or perhaps abstain

I have NEVER heard 1 pro abortion say " I support a womans choice, but I believe men & women do bear at least some responsibility. Why is that. ?

@missyann Once consequence of pregnancy is abortion. Deal with it.

Having an abortion is the responsible thing to do in some cases, but I never hear the so-called "pro-life" crowd admit that.

@LeopoldBloom To think that pro life doesn't have a plan is delusional. This has been a fight for 50 yrs. Does any pro abortion advocate " really " think that we didn't expect to get knocked back after our first big win ? That this is all part of the plan ? Yikes !!!

Nope, we will never accept abortion is a consequence of sex. That is a childish immature response to think that you have no responsibility for your actions

@missyann Pro-lifers are like the dog that caught the car. You managed to overturn Roe v. Wade, but even the PL in Congress realize that opposing abortion is a losing issue. It was the perfect issue before, where a politician could take a "principled" stand without being expected to accomplish anything. Now they're stuck with trying to placate the anti-abortion extremists like you, without alienating the pro-choice majority. And as soon as the Democrats have the trifecta again, abortion will be legal nationwide. And when the Republicans have the trifecta, don't be surprised if they pass on this issue. They know what will happen if they outlaw it.

@LeopoldBloom Sorry to be the one to tell you. You are WRONG

@missyann Have you noticed that even in states where they've passed abortion restrictions, a woman can still get an abortion for any reason up to the cutoff, 6 weeks, 15 weeks, or whatever. There are maybe 20% of Americans at most who want to totally outlaw abortion starting at conception. And even in states where it's illegal, the penalties only apply to the doctor, not the woman. If "abortion is murder," that would be like a woman hiring a hit man to kill someone, and the hit man goes to jail while the woman goes scot-free.

This proves that even anti-abortion fanatics recognize that their position is unpopular and are moderating it. If a ZEF is a "baby," why are you tolerating laws that don't punish the woman for "murdering" it?

@LeopoldBloom A fetus IS a baby at different stages of development. You aren't as old today as you will be next month.

Like I've said before, I don't follow the " cool kids " because 95℅ crash & burn

I don't tolerate anything, I have no choice but to accept the " time outs" Dr's are getting. Most times not even that, but at least its something. Hell, I would support life for both in heartbeat. They're both murdering